Why vanitas is impossible to be saved in kh3 and beyond.

[xXMikey1stXx 206]

 Hello. I wanna talk about vanitas being saved. It's literally impossible on all ends. I can understand storytelling for characters, villians redemption, and forgiveness on your own terms. This characters were already here. That's fine. But vanitas is a in-lore character. He is literally darkness personified. Not a heartless like ansem:sod, but a pure dark being. He will always be bad because he represent negative personality and emotions. In conclusion, he shouldn't and never be saved. It's just not gonna happen. Tell me what you think.

[setsugekka 162]

I don't think that people are wrong for thinking that Vanitas could be redeemed. Vanitas has a heart. It would seem uncharacteristically cynical for KH to tell us that a heart filled with darkness will always be filled with darkness, that "bad people are just bad and can never change".

I know it's hard to imagine how a being of pure darkness could be redeemed, though. He's seen the suffering of others and hasn't been moved. He seems cruel and contemptuous. But what if something affected him personally? Right before he was defeated by Ventus, he was afraid. If obeying Xehanort means losing his life again, I think he would disobey him.

Doubling as a metaphor isn't invalidating his personhood, if that's what you're thinking. Because he's a manifested metaphor, the fact that he's back again practically guarantees that he has to change in some way. Otherwise, Nomura's just repeating himself. lol

[LightKeyDarkBlade 72]

First, we have to understand that darkness is not necessarily evil in the lore of Kingdom Hearts. Mickey learned that based on Riku.

I don't believe that Vanitas is only restricted to negativity. I presume that Vanitas himself believed it that way and so got dragged into his cycle of negativity regarding the Unversed. This is based on the canon KHBbS novels. Xehanort sort of misguided him.

And believe it or not, he's connected to Sora in some way. His face is the obvious evidence.

[Connected 978]

I believe that we are going to have a Xion-situation with Vanitas. Since he is part of Ventus, I believe Vanitas is needed to wake Ventus up.
So yes i think he has to be redeemed in order to go back to Ventus heart.  

[Dustin Lübbers 933]

12 hours ago, xXMikey1stXx said:

 Hello. I wanna talk about vanitas being saved. It's literally impossible on all ends. I can understand storytelling for characters, villians redemption, and forgiveness on your own terms. This characters were already here. That's fine. But vanitas is a in-lore character. He is literally darkness personified. Not a heartless like ansem:sod, but a pure dark being. He will always be bad because he represent negative personality and emotions. In conclusion, he shouldn't and never be saved. It's just not gonna happen. Tell me what you think.

No one is beyond Redemtion but To achieve and receive forgivness one must first want it. And at the moment no one in Xehanort gang seems to be in that category

8 hours ago, Kenneth Choo said:

First, we have to understand that darkness is not necessarily evil in the lore of Kingdom Hearts. Mickey learned that based on Riku.

I don't believe that Vanitas is only restricted to negativity. I presume that Vanitas himself believed it that way and so got dragged into his cycle of negativity regarding the Unversed. This is based on the canon KHBbS novels. Xehanort sort of misguided him.

And believe it or not, he's connected to Sora in some way. His face is the obvious evidence.

True, ansem in dream drop distance described the light in soras heart as basically limitless. So than it should be possible for sora to overcome any darkness no matter how great. And you bring up a good point Vanitas is connected to only negative emotions, so maybe having that as the basis there is something to work with. I mean who wants to be in pain? So sora could show him there is more than just hate and envy and sadness and whatnot.

[Movies798 1,359]

Honestly, I seriously hope that Vantias won't be saved in Kingdom Hearts 3. Vantias is one of my favorite villains in the Kingdom Hearts series and I would hate to see him turn good. I rather kill him again and kill him once and for all and not have him to do some redemption arc. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

I am honestly one of those people that thinks that Vanitas will become an anti-hero in Kingdom Hearts III! Meaning that while he probably won't turn good, he won't necessarily lean towards evil, either! I think that in the end, he'd probably be a neutral force. I guess we'll have to see what happens in Kingdom Hearts III, but I'm honestly hoping that Vanitas gets more character development, and if the light novels are touched upon in any way, it'll be interesting to see what develops with Vanitas, ya know? He's one of my favorite villains in the KH series, and I can't wait to see what'll happen to him.

[ienzo628 548]

I wonder if Vanitas is able to manipulate his appearance based on who observes him after he takes off his helmet.

[NoWay 63]

I’d love Vanitas to turn good. I mean we have so many persons who are using the power of the Realm of Light. It would be so nice to have Vanitas as the one who presents the good side of darkness and that every heart has also its negativities.

We cannot deny that everybody HAS darkness inside their heart as well as light. There is not any kind of light without darkness. It’s a balance. So why not having someone who is using the power of the Realm of Darkness?

i mean Riku is between light and darkness. Terra is as for now lost for good. But Vanitas could be like the first one on the good side who uses darkness as his power. Stop that darkness racism for good.

Edited November 5, 2018 by NoWay

[Keyblade101 526]

8 hours ago, The Transcendent Key said:

I am honestly one of those people that thinks that Vanitas will become an anti-hero in Kingdom Hearts III! Meaning that while he probably won't turn good, he won't necessarily lean towards evil, either! I think that in the end, he'd probably be a neutral force. I guess we'll have to see what happens in Kingdom Hearts III, but I'm honestly hoping that Vanitas gets more character development, and if the light novels are touched upon in any way, it'll be interesting to see what develops with Vanitas, ya know? He's one of my favorite villains in the KH series, and I can't wait to see what'll happen to him.

Anti-hero Vanitas for the win!!!! 

I would LOVE IT if they touched on stuff about Vanitas from the novels within the game!  It would definitely add more depth to his character than to just chalk him up as just another villain (in this case an evil Sora/Ventus) without a backstory in the games.

P.S. Any ideas on what they could touch upon and how they could do it?

P.S.S. I have our conversation about our Coco world bookmarked so I can go right to it if I think of something else I can add, but ever since the update to the whole KH13 site, I haven't been able to access our conversations at all. Has that happened to you with anything?

[ITzDarthLordRevan 291]

I don't think Vanitas can be completely redeemed. I've always liked the concept of anti-hero and /or chaotic neutral Vanitas acting mostly out of self-interest while messing with everyone out of pure entertainment. With how much they seem to be showing him in trailers and how much merchandise the've been selling (there's apparently a packaged set of three little mini Keyblades that are Vanitas, Sora, and Riku's Keyblades that they are selling) of him, it seems as if he's going to be a bit more prevalent this time around. He's one of the few characters I'd like to see get some more character depth. As for the light novels, I always heard they weren't canon. Still, it would be interesting to see whether or not they implemented Vanitas's painful backstory in KH 3.

If it has been implemented, they'd have to water down all the abuse and self-hatred into something vague enough to be deemed as appropriate for children but clear enough that older audiences can understand it. I don't  think they will have much of a problem with this, though I don't know if Disney would be okay with it.

Edited November 5, 2018 by ITzDarthLordRevan

[Cricket 1,180]

Evident of how Sora has been presented to us throughout the series, I think a possibility exists that Vanitas can be redeemed through ties with Sora. I strongly believe potential encounters with Sora in KH3 will lead to some sort of shift or inner conflict within Vanitas - but no telling if that will stir Vanitas up even more or give him a slight moment of weakness/doubt. However, we must remember that Vanitas needs to return to Ventus as he is the dark counterpart of Ventus' heart and when removed, Ventus was broken and only regained his normalcy a while after Sora offered to fill up the part in his heart that was lost. Ultimately, I am not sure how Vanitas will become his own, individual self and be 'good' if he needs to return to Ventus' heart after Sora gets the part he offered to Ventus back.

[Tyranto Rex 277]

I would not say it's impossible per say cause this is Kingdom Hearts We are talking about. But it does look like he will be somewhat important whether he ends up being "redeemed" or not. I will say it would be nice to have more characters that are more middle ground then merely good or evil. Even Riku I consider to be more on the "good" side who just uses darkness sometimes to accomplish goals. There's so far not really a character that's more neutral. The closest that I can think of is maybe Ansem the Wise (and that's a big maybe). So even if Vanitas does end up staying a full on villain I would love a grey/neutral character anyway. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 11/4/2018 at 9:34 PM, Keyblade101 said:

Anti-hero Vanitas for the win!!!! 

I would LOVE IT if they touched on stuff about Vanitas from the novels within the game!  It would definitely add more depth to his character than to just chalk him up as just another villain (in this case an evil Sora/Ventus) without a backstory in the games.

P.S. Any ideas on what they could touch upon and how they could do it?

P.S.S. I have our conversation about our Coco world bookmarked so I can go right to it if I think of something else I can add, but ever since the update to the whole KH13 site, I haven't been able to access our conversations at all. Has that happened to you with anything?

Indeed, Anti-hero Vanitas is an awesome idea!

And yeah, I'm sure that with how important he'll be to the central plot considering that he's one of the Thirteen Seekers of Darkness, he'll have more development, ya know? And as for how they could touch upon his development, we could get bits and pieces about him throughout the game, and we learn more about him and perhaps even get to fight him a few times!

And yeah, I honestly don't know. Ever since the site changed up, everything has been different! X3

[Keyblade101 526]

14 hours ago, The Transcendent Key said:

Indeed, Anti-hero Vanitas is an awesome idea!

And yeah, I'm sure that with how important he'll be to the central plot considering that he's one of the Thirteen Seekers of Darkness, he'll have more development, ya know? And as for how they could touch upon his development, we could get bits and pieces about him throughout the game, and we learn more about him and perhaps even get to fight him a few times!

And yeah, I honestly don't know. Ever since the site changed up, everything has been different! X3

Anti-hero Vanitas forever!! XD Honestly, I'm REALLY curious if Sora will ever see Vanitas's face! I wanna know what his reaction would be!

I'll keep an eye out for our conversations. This whole update was out of nowhere! I miss the site's old look. 

[blossom goodness 4]

On 11/5/2018 at 12:21 AM, ITzDarthLordRevan said:

I don't think Vanitas can be completely redeemed. I've always liked the concept of anti-hero and /or chaotic neutral Vanitas acting mostly out of self-interest while messing with everyone out of pure entertainment. With how much they seem to be showing him in trailers and how much merchandise the've been selling (there's apparently a packaged set of three little mini Keyblades that are Vanitas, Sora, and Riku's Keyblades that they are selling) of him, it seems as if he's going to be a bit more prevalent this time around. He's one of the few characters I'd like to see get some more character depth. As for the light novels, I always heard they weren't canon. Still, it would be interesting to see whether or not they implemented Vanitas's painful backstory in KH 3.

If it has been implemented, they'd have to water down all the abuse and self-hatred into something vague enough to be deemed as appropriate for children but clear enough that older audiences can understand it. I don't  think they will have much of a problem with this, though I don't know if Disney would be okay with it.

tangled is a very good example of emotional abuse though oh Cinderella too

Disney is not new to these things 

And i thought nomura oversaw the novel wriring

 

i think it's the expansion of notes nomura wrote down but could not add to birth by sleep

Edited November 8, 2018 by blossom goodness

[Tyranto Rex 277]

16 minutes ago, blossom goodness said:

tangled is a very good example of emotional abuse though oh Cinderella too

Disney is not new to these things 

And i thought nomura overall the novel wriring

Also Hunchback dealt with it (as well as a host of other things). Not to mention some of the stuff Kingdom Hearts already deals with. I don't think Disney would be against it.

[KH4Real 749]

Guys Vanitas will join eventually the lights I have just found this out:
https://aitaikuji.com/kingdom-hearts-ensky-goods-gem-can-badge-set

This is crazy.

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

I am so glad someone finally said it. All this talk about him possibly being saved or betraying Xehanort and so on makes no sense since he basically is a Xehanort and as mentioned darkness personified.

[ienzo628 548]

1 hour ago, KingdomHearts3 said:

I am so glad someone finally said it. All this talk about him possibly being saved or betraying Xehanort and so on makes no sense since he basically is a Xehanort and as mentioned darkness personified.

Wasn't he going to harm Aqua in BBS despite Xehanort's orders?

[Cricket 1,180]

4 hours ago, KH4Real said:

Guys Vanitas will join eventually the lights I have just found this out:
https://aitaikuji.com/kingdom-hearts-ensky-goods-gem-can-badge-set

This is crazy.

Where's Kairi and normal Riku? ?

As I replied earlier, I think it will be difficult and almost impossible for Vanitas to be redeemed or 'good.' But this is pretty cool with the merchandise, and I'll say, I am gonna be pretty surprised if he somehow joins the Lights/just is done with MX's shit. Again, there's a realm of possibility.

[ienzo628 548]

1 hour ago, Cricket said:

Where's Kairi and normal Riku? ?

As I replied earlier, I think it will be difficult and almost impossible for Vanitas to be redeemed or 'good.' But this is pretty cool with the merchandise, and I'll say, I am gonna be pretty surprised if he somehow joins the Lights/just is done with MX's shit. Again, there's a realm of possibility.

We won't know until January. 

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

21 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

Wasn't he going to harm Aqua in BBS despite Xehanort's orders?

That was Ventus, not Aqua. Xehanort directly ordered Vanitas to take her life. Watch the battle cutscene between Terra and Xehanort and you will see.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:14 PM, Keyblade101 said:

Anti-hero Vanitas forever!! XD Honestly, I'm REALLY curious if Sora will ever see Vanitas's face! I wanna know what his reaction would be!

I'll keep an eye out for our conversations. This whole update was out of nowhere! I miss the site's old look. 

Heck yeah! And yeah, I'm dying to see that, too! Here's hoping we get that confrontation, cuz I'd love to see Sora's reaction!

Haha, sure thing, man! And yeah, I miss it too, but we must push forward!

[ITzDarthLordRevan 291]

On 11/8/2018 at 5:58 PM, blossom goodness said:

tangled is a very good example of emotional abuse though oh Cinderella too

Disney is not new to these things 

And i thought nomura oversaw the novel wriring

 

i think it's the expansion of notes nomura wrote down but could not add to birth by sleep

 

On 11/8/2018 at 6:19 PM, Tyranto Rex said:

Also Hunchback dealt with it (as well as a host of other things). Not to mention some of the stuff Kingdom Hearts already deals with. I don't think Disney would be against it.

I don't  remember where this was confirmed but both the novels and the manga are considered non-canon. Presumably, this was confirmed by "Word of God" (aka Nomura) I know Disney isn't new to these things and I have seen Cinderella and the Hunchback of Notre Dame. You could also count the way Rapunzel is treated by Mother Gothel as abuse. It was more of a illogical concern and me just being a spring chicken who needs think before they speak. I'm sorry if I sounded like an idiot.

Edited November 14, 2018 by ITzDarthLordRevan