Is Ansem SoD Not being Ansem a retcon or a plot twist?

[ReverofE 698]

I would like to know your thoughts on this since it has been bugging for a while. Plus, I'm kind of gearing towards retcon personally since the other games didn't hint at him not being Ansem.

[BlankShell 638]

I lean more toward plot twist. It has elements of a retcon, but I feel like they wouldn't belabor the entire point through half of KH2 if we were meant to ignore it. The series has always had a penchant for "names with meaning" anyway, so it fits.

[awesomeinmyworld 268]

Plot twist. Ansem SoD had a Heartless Emblem on his chest-- design wise this could be taken as someone who is aligned with the Heartless, and this was seen in the design of KH1 Hollow Bastion which Maleficent controlled, or as being a Heartless. In KH1, it probably meant the former, but in KH2 onward it meant the latter.

Also, this was KH2, not many plot twists were happening at this time in the series. Ansem being the main antagonist in KH1 was the big plot twist, and him being Xehanort's Heartless was the big twist of KH2. Things were mellow back then.

 

The REAL retcon of the series is Sora stating in KH1 he was losing his memories as a Heartless, but in CoM onward he and everyone else says he didn't.

[ReverofE 698]

I lean more toward plot twist. It has elements of a retcon, but I feel like they wouldn't belabor the entire point through half of KH2 if we were meant to ignore it. The series has always had a penchant for "names with meaning" anyway, so it fits.

 

Don't get me wrong I get what you are saying.  And I WILL say that if I looked at KH2 as a standalone it comes across as more of a plot twist. Because the game itself DOES give subtle hints (like DiZ laughing at Riku when he referred to himself as Ansem) to Ansem SoD not being who he say he is. So when the reveal DOES occur it's a twist but it's a logical that was somewhat hinted at. Similar to the concept of Nobodies.

 

It's just when I look at the series as a whole at the time (KH1 ,CoM, KH2) it looks more like a retcon due to both KH1 and CoM treating Ansem as THE Ansem.

 

 

Plot twist. Ansem SoD had a Heartless Emblem on his chest-- design wise this could be taken as someone who is aligned with the Heartless, and this was seen in the design of KH1 Hollow Bastion which Maleficent controlled, or as being a Heartless. In KH1, it probably meant the former, but in KH2 onward it meant the latter.

Also, this was KH2, not many plot twists were happening at this time in the series. Ansem being the main antagonist in KH1 was the big plot twist, and him being Xehanort's Heartless was the big twist of KH2. Things were mellow back then.

 

The REAL retcon of the series is Sora stating in KH1 he was losing his memories as a Heartless, but in CoM onward he and everyone else says he didn't.

 

Remember Ansem SoD turning out to be a Heartless and Ansem SoD not turning out to be Ansem the Wise is NOT the same. Even though they were both revealed at the same time it doesn't mean they are the same. Ansem could have just as easily been Ansem while still being revealed as a Heartless.

 

Your argument DID convince me that the game MAY have been hinting at him being a Heartless but him not being the real Ansem it does not. 

 

 

NEW INFO: The scene(s) in the game where DiZ impersonates Ansem SoD lead me more towards plot twist.

Edited November 8, 2017 by ReverofE

[Headphone Jack 1,147]

well just to be sure here's the google definition of a retcon: 

 

"a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency."

 

i think that could be applied to the sudden revelation that Ansem isn't really Ansem. it's new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events done to facilitate a dramatic plot shift. 

 

i'm in the retcon camp, but i actually don't think it's a terrible one. i mean the way it's set up is kind of sloppy but in the grand scheme of things it really only causes a bit of confusion when dealing with the names of a couple characters. 

[JTD95 1,107]

I would say that a retcon is when new information is presented which makes you look at previous events differently but doesn't really change where the plot is going.

A plot twist is when new information is given which changes the course of the plot.

 

I would say Ansem being revealed as being Xehanort's Heartless is a retcon. Nothing really changes after the reveal. Sora and the gang still has the same goal to defeat Organization XIII and to find Riku and Kairi. Now Saïx revealing to Sora that him destroying Heartless' helps them in achieving their goal I would say is a plot twist.

[Dustin Lübbers 933]

The story wasnt thought out in the first game as it wasnt even sure if there would be sequels it is save to say that the SOD ansem was at the moment when KH1 came out meant to be the real ansem In COD not anymore because we meet DIZ, of course it is not clear how much the story for KH2 was developed at that point but I think some Key elements like the reveal that ansem is not ansem were thought out already. To me it is a Retcon because it was just done to find a way to have a ansem that was truly wise and good but I wonder why it could have not been ansem who was the apprentice or something if they needed another scientist dude. Also we were never given a reason WHY xehanort took ansems name.

[Elfdemon_ 695]

It's both. It's a plot twist and a retcon. Nomura most likely didn't come up with Ansem the Wise until after KH1's development. A lot of the retcons in the series are to either create plot twists or to make sure that plot twists that were created make sense.

[VisitJoan 2,713]

I don’t see it as a retcon because this information doesn’t change anything that happened in KHI. Some guy named Ansem was going around turning worlds to darkness. None of this was affected by the fact that this guy’s name wasn’t really Ansem. It was something Sora thought at the time, so it makes sense that we would think that too. Therefore, it’s a plot twist.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Honestly, I think of this more as a plot twist than a retcon. I mean, it's explained in a well enough way that Ansem stole his Master's name and caused chaos throughout the worlds. It's like identity theft. Someone can easily give you a bad reputation by stealing your name and committing acts that you otherwise wouldn't do. The real Ansem had no idea that Xehanort would go about continuing the research of the heart behind his back, so in the grand scheme of things and because of Xehanort's ambition, taking Ansem's name for himself was as much identity theft as it was getting back at him for denying him to continue researching, ya know?