Why aren't Vanitas' eyes blue?

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

No. Xion, Eraqus, and Xigbar all have black hair naturally, it has nothing to do with the darkness. When Vanitas was born he was for all intents and purposes a heartless, a vaguely human shaped heartless. Vanitas started out his life as basically this:

 

Then Ven joined his heart with Sora, and Vanitas gained Sora's shape. Vanitas got black hair and golden eyes representing his origin as a being of complete darkness. Vanitas' appearance had nothing to do with Xehanort, Xehanort did not even attempt to start possessing people to make the X-blade until after Terra, and that possession is what causes the white hair and golden eyes that people have, that's the "influence" that Normua is talking about. This is because he didn't know he needed 13 darknesses and 7 lights yet, Master Xehanort even outright says this in Dream Drop Distance.

 

Xehanort: "I once tried to create my own pure light and darkness to forge the X-blade, but the attempt ended in failure. In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal."

 

So yes, there is one other character who has golden eyes naturally, Vanitas.

Except it was never stated that Vanitas got black hair and yellow/golden eyes because of his origin of darkness.

 

As you said, Vanitas looks like Sora due to Ventus' connection with Sora in the beginning of Birth by Sleep. However, it is never stated that the yellow eyes are a result of being part of the darkness. Vanitas' eye colour is the exact same of Master Xehanort and Braig in BBS.

 

Yellow eyes have never been a result or effect of darkness as many characters have used or embraced the darkness but never had yellow eyes, such as Riku, Riku Replica and Maleficent. There's even Sephiroth, the physical manifestation of Cloud's darkness, who has blue eyes, not yellow.

 

As heavily implied in Dream Drop Distance, yellow eyes means that they are part-Xehanort, as shown when the camera zooms straight into Xigbar's/Braig's eye as he says, "Me? I'm already half-Xehanort."

[immortalfrieza 14]

 

As heavily implied in Dream Drop Distance, yellow eyes means that they are part-Xehanort, as shown when the camera zooms straight into Xigbar's/Braig's eye as he says, "Me? I'm already half-Xehanort."

Yes, but NO ONE is half Xehanort except Terra at the time of Birth By Sleep, it isn't until after this that Xehanort starts placing his heart into people to create the X-blade. Thus Vanitas cannot be part-Xehanort, so the only conclusion that can be made is Vanitas' black hair and golden eyes are a direct result of simply being the kind of being he is.

Edited July 26, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Yes, but NO ONE is half Xehanort except Terra at the time of Birth By Sleep, it isn't until after this that Xehanort starts placing his heart into people to create the X-blade, so Vanitas cannot be part-Xehanort, so the only conclusion that can be made is Vanitas' black hair and golden eyes are a direct result of simply being the kind of being he is.

Terra isn't the only one who is half/part-Xehanort. Braig/Xigbar literally says in DDD that he's already half-Xehanort. In BBS, Braig starts out with brown eyes and then later has yellow eyes, showing that he was made a vessel during the events of BBS.

 

In Birth by Sleep, Xehanort puts his whole heart inside of Terra's body, while with Braig and others, he has placed pieces of his heart within him, as he attempted to do so to Sora in DDD.

 

Quote from Dream Drop Distance Post-Game Interview:

 

 

 

 

• By the way, Braig’s dealings with Master Xehanort in Birth by Sleep make sense now, as he was to become a vessel.

There is a certain reason for Braig to proudly exclaim, “I’m already half Xehanort.” Isa (Saïx) is included too. I think you’ll understand the details about their circumstances eventually.

 

• What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

 

 

 

The concept of yellow eyes being an effect of darkness is and always has been a fan-made theory. Many characters have used and embraced the darkness and never had yellow eyes.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Master Eraqus

[Felixx 6,646]

Terra isn't the only one who is half/part-Xehanort. Braig/Xigbar literally says in DDD that he's already half-Xehanort. In BBS, Braig starts out with brown eyes and then later has yellow eyes, showing that he was made a vessel during the events of BBS.

 

In Birth by Sleep, Xehanort puts his whole heart inside of Terra's body, while with Braig and others, he has placed pieces of his heart within him, as he attempted to do so to Sora in DDD.

 

Quote from Dream Drop Distance Post-Game Interview:

 

 

 

 

 

• By the way, Braig’s dealings with Master Xehanort in Birth by Sleep make sense now, as he was to become a vessel.

There is a certain reason for Braig to proudly exclaim, “I’m already half Xehanort.” Isa (Saïx) is included too. I think you’ll understand the details about their circumstances eventually.

 

• What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

 

 

 

The concept of yellow eyes being an effect of darkness is and always has been a fan-made theory. Many characters have used and embraced the darkness and never had yellow eyes.

Why would Xehanort put pieces of his heart into others during the time of BBS when the whole idea of having 13 vessels was created with DDD? Doesn't make any sense to me...

[Alja 61]

I haven't played DDD by myself yet (I only watched the cutscenes), but I thought DDD stated that the idea of 13 vessels was already a thing back when the original Organization XIII was coined, but ultimately failed and thus lead to the new Organization XIII?

 

Don't forget Xehanort himself said to Terra "You are just one of many roads that I might choose to take. Trust me. I made certain of that." Being the mastermind that he is, it stands to reason that he actually did plan ahead and used a nearly empty vessel as a first host to a part of his heart.

[immortalfrieza 14]

Why would Xehanort put pieces of his heart into others during the time of BBS when the whole idea of having 13 vessels was created with DDD? Doesn't make any sense to me...

He wouldn't. He outright SAYS he doesn't start making use of this method to forge the X-blade until after Birth By Sleep. Xehanort possesses Terra for the sole reason of getting himself a younger body so he doesn't die of old age.

[KHShaderoom 28]

No. Xion, Eraqus, and Xigbar all have black hair naturally, it has nothing to do with the darkness. When Vanitas was born he was for all intents and purposes a heartless, a vaguely human shaped heartless. Vanitas started out his life as basically this:

Then Ven joined his heart with Sora, and Vanitas gained Sora's shape. Vanitas got black hair and golden eyes representing his origin as a being of complete darkness. Vanitas' appearance had nothing to do with Xehanort, Xehanort did not even attempt to start possessing people to make the X-blade until after Terra, and that possession is what causes the white hair and golden eyes that people have, that's the "influence" that Normua is talking about. This is because he didn't know he needed 13 darknesses and 7 lights yet, Master Xehanort even outright says this in Dream Drop Distance.

 

Xehanort: "I once tried to create my own pure light and darkness to forge the X-blade, but the attempt ended in failure. In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal."

 

So yes, there is one other character who has golden eyes naturally, Vanitas.

Again, youre speculating how vanitas got his black hair. It was never confirmed how he got it.

 

1)Again, we don't know when Vanitas got his golden eyes. We don't know the timing at all. Vanitas wasn't born with golden eyes to begin with.

 

2) Noumra stated that golden eyes represent Xehanort. Golden eyes doesn't represent darkness.

[immortalfrieza 14]

2) Noumra stated that golden eyes represent Xehanort. Golden eyes doesn't represent darkness.

No, they represent HEARTLESS, I have to emphasize that because you don't seem to get it. Vanitas was originally made entirely of Darkness, just like Heartless, and Heartless, especially natural ones which were all that existed at the time are entirely black with golden eyes. Therefore, Vanitas reflected that when he actually got a human face in his hair and eyes, it's not in any way complicated.

[catmaster0116 2,676]

What proved he didn't harbour a fragment of Xehanort's heart in him? Confirmation or evidence?

 

Cause we don't know but I want to hear your theory

 

I'm sorry that was worded poorly. Yes you are correct.

 

I meant to say He does not harbour a fragment of Xehanort's heart, I have no proof that he does not at this point. But at this point we do not have proof that he does either.

 

There has not been a cutscene that shows Vanitas officially recieving a fragment of Xehanort's heart, and its only implied among fans given that he has the 'yellow eyes' along with a cutscene in KH3D where appears along Young Xehanort saysing 'Even if you are not the prisoner'.

 

When Riku was possessed by Xehanort in KH1, his eyes were not yellow. Which means one can have a part of Xehanort in them but not have yellow eyes.

 

Also in the novels for BBS (non canon), Vanitas originally had red eyes. So it is a Nomura mystery why Vanitas has yellow eyes.

[KHShaderoom 28]

No, they represent HEARTLESS, I have to emphasize that because you don't seem to get it. Vanitas was originally made entirely of Darkness, just like Heartless, and Heartless, especially natural ones which were all that existed at the time are entirely black with golden eyes. Therefore, Vanitas reflected that when he actually got a human face in his hair and eyes, it's not in any way complicated.

Can you stop calling vanitas a heartless? A Heartless is a heart that has been lost to darkness. Vanitas is the darkness EXTRACTED from Ven, therefore ventus didnt get lost to darkness. He is not Ven heartless. IMO, i would classify vanitas as an unversed. Not only that, the Unversed existed before the Heartless were ever created. Again, heartless DOES NOT have pupils. Vanitas and Xehanort DOES HAVE pupils and golden eyes. So comparing a Xehanort and others with golden eyes with heartless shows no correlation whatsoever. (Just to add in,The first heartless were born from Apprentice Xehanort's testing) Heartless did not exist during birth by sleep time period. Therefore vanitas isnt a heartless.

 

"Nomura: Well Terra's look was already a decided thing, we just had to make him look a bit younger. I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasnt sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus' fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Soras face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus' heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku."

 

Can you please show me where nomura confirmed vanitas having black hair because of the darkness? Unless you have confirmation from nomura saying "vanitas having black because of darkness" therefore your theory is just a speculation. Nomura only confirms why vanitas looked like sora. He never mentioned his hair color or eyes.

 

"Question:Comparing the Organization members when they were human to when they were in the Organization, apart from Xehanort, only Isa and Braig have differently-shaped ears and differently-coloured eyes - why is this?"

 

"Nomura: Its a question of whether or not theyre deeply connected to Xehanort. In Braigs case, comparing the scene where he's injured in his battle with Terra and flares up at Xehanort, his appearance afterwards changes, which hints that something happened with Xehanort in between."

 

"Question: By the way, Braig’s dealings with Master Xehanort in Birth by Sleep make sense, he was to become a vessel."

 

"Nomura: There is a certain reason for Braig to proudly exclaim, “As for me, I’m already half Xehanort.” Isa (Saix) is included too. I think you’ll understand the details about their circumstances eventually."

 

Thats confirmation. Golden eyes represent Xehanort not darkness. In DDD, when it zooms in on Xiggys eye as evidence of him being "half Xehanort" Golden eyes represent Xehanort. It's pretty clear.

 

I can speculate Vanitas is actually made up of half of Ventus' heart, which means he is not entirely whole. Xehanort couldve slip a fragment of his heart into vanitas. But I dont have evidence for my theory. We never see his face BEFORE. We do not know if he had golden eyes before or after. The only thing we know is, when Vanitas was BORN, he was a faceless with red eyes.

 

Xehanort is the only person in the game to naturally have them. Ansem, Xemnas, Xigbar (braig) Saix, and Terranort have golden eyes and they have a connection with Xehanort. So why is it any different for vanitas? Vanitas has golden eyes.

 

Youre obviously making it complicated when someone already told you what golden eyes represent yet you proceed to say golden eyes represent darkness. You keep saying "Vanitas is a heartless" when heartless never existed during BBS period.

No, they represent HEARTLESS, I have to emphasize that because you don't seem to get it. Vanitas was originally made entirely of Darkness, just like Heartless, and Heartless, especially natural ones which were all that existed at the time are entirely black with golden eyes. Therefore, Vanitas reflected that when he actually got a human face in his hair and eyes, it's not in any way complicated.

Not to be rude or anything, but you obviously didn't pay attention to the game at all. I don't know if you got heartless and unversed mixed up but heartless was never in BBS and it never existed during BBS. Same with golden eyes. Someone ^ already told you and nomura confirmed it plenty of times. You should replay the whole series because you seem confused

[immortalfrieza 14]

Snip

I keep calling Vanitas a Heartless because that's what he is, the pure darkness in Ventus' heart extracted and given form, which is exactly what Heartless are, the darkness in people's hearts which devours the heart of the person and casts off the body into nothingness, which forms a Heartless. Your belief that Heartless did not exist at the time of Birth By Sleep is demonstrably false, Heartless have always existed in the Kingdom Hearts universe naturally. There's two kinds of Heartless, purebred Heartless, which are natural beings formed entirely of the darkness from people's hearts and have always existed, and emblem Heartless, which are Heartless created by Xehanort artificially decades down the line from Birth By Sleep when he was the true Ansem's apprentice. There's the time Xehanort threw Ven against Heartless to try to get him to use the darkness which prompted him to create Vanitas in the first place and Aqua's journey through the Realm of Darkness in Birth By Sleep's final mix "A Fragmentary Passage if you need proof of that. Vanitas is definitely different from an ordinary Heartless, but they are composed of exactly the same stuff, the only difference between Vanitas and a Heartless is he still has a functioning heart just like Xehanort's Heartless which is why he can still think like a normal human being and thus keeps a vaguely human form before it's solidified once Ven merges his heart with Sora, as opposed to Heartless which don't and thus act only on pure instinct.

 

Heartless don't have pupils... except you know, Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas. Regular Heartless don't have pupils because they don't mimic human form to that extent like Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas do. With all natural heartless the vast majority of their body is black and their eyes are gold, Anti Sora (the Kingdom Hearts enemy, not Sora's Anti-Form BTW) is the most readily apparent proof of this, thus it follows that Vanitas' hair and eyes would be.

 

When Normua is talking about this: "Question:Comparing the Organization members when they were human to when they were in the Organization, apart from Xehanort, only Isa and Braig have differently-shaped ears and differently-coloured eyes - why is this?"

 

"Nomura: Its a question of whether or not theyre deeply connected to Xehanort. In Braigs case, comparing the scene where he's injured in his battle with Terra and flares up at Xehanort, his appearance afterwards changes, which hints that something happened with Xehanort in between."

 

"Question: By the way, Braig’s dealings with Master Xehanort in Birth by Sleep make sense, he was to become a vessel."

 

"Nomura: There is a certain reason for Braig to proudly exclaim, “As for me, I’m already half Xehanort.” Isa (Saix) is included too. I think you’ll understand the details about their circumstances eventually."

 

Thats confirmation. Golden eyes represent Xehanort not darkness. In DDD, when it zooms in on Xiggys eye as evidence of him being "half Xehanort" Golden eyes represent Xehanort. It's pretty clear.

 

That's not confirmation, Nomura is referring ONLY to golden eyes of the members of the True Organization 13, not that any character that has golden eyes is necessarily possessed by Xehanort and certainly not Vanitas. Xehanort was not placing his heart within anyone but Terra at the time of Birth By Sleep, therefore he could not be responsible for Vanitas having golden eyes in any way whatsoever. The only reason Xehanort began placing his pieces of his heart into other people was to attempt to forge the X-blade, which he had no reason to do at the time of Birth By Sleep no matter how much of a master planner he is, he states this in Dream Drop Distance directly:

Xehanort: "I once tried to create my own pure light and darkness to forge the X-blade, but the attempt ended in failure. In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal."

 

Xehanort has no reason whatsoever to start putting his heart into people until AFTER Birth By Sleep's attempt to make the X-blade fails, he doesn't KNOW that his method wouldn't work at the time.

 

 

Not to be rude or anything, but you obviously didn't pay attention to the game at all. I don't know if you got heartless and unversed mixed up but heartless was never in BBS and it never existed during BBS. Same with golden eyes. Someone ^ already told you and nomura confirmed it plenty of times. You should replay the whole series because you seem confused

Right back at ya.

Edited July 27, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Why would Xehanort put pieces of his heart into others during the time of BBS when the whole idea of having 13 vessels was created with DDD? Doesn't make any sense to me...

Xehanort didn't just come up with the idea of 13 vessels during DDD. As he stated in DDD, "In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal." He knew of the 7 lights and the 13 darknesses. That was the whole reason he used Maleficent to gather the 7 Princesses of Heart while he created Organization XIII. As he states in the Xehanort reports, he is getting too old and thus, could die soon. Until he saw Terra, Xehanort had no suitable vessel to put his whole heart in. But as we all know, Xehanort always prepares back-up plans.

 

As he states in BBS to Terra, "You are just one of many roads I might choose to take. Trust me, I made certain of that." For a man like Xehanort, it would make sense to have back-ups.

 

Quote from Dream Drop Distance Post-Game Interview:

• What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

 

 

No, they represent HEARTLESS, I have to emphasize that because you don't seem to get it. Vanitas was originally made entirely of Darkness, just like Heartless, and Heartless, especially natural ones which were all that existed at the time are entirely black with golden eyes. Therefore, Vanitas reflected that when he actually got a human face in his hair and eyes, it's not in any way complicated.

This is pure speculation. It was never stated that yellow eyes represent darkness. Vanitas is the manifestation of Ventus' heart, but is not a Heartless. Similar? Yes, but not exact.

 

If Vanitas has yellow eyes because of his origin of darkness, then why doesn't Sephiroth, a manifestation of Cloud's darkness, have yellow eyes?

 

If you have a statement proving that yellow eyes are a sign of darkness, please show it to me.

 

Heartless don't have pupils... except you know, Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas. Regular Heartless don't have pupils because they don't mimic human form to that extent like Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas do.

That is true; Heartless don't have pupils. Xehanort's Heartless (Ansem SOD) didn't have pupils in fact, when he was the Robed Figure. The Ansem we later see in KH1, COM and DDD is the Robed Figure possessing Riku's body and changing its form. That is why he has pupils because at that point, it's Riku's body, not just a Heartless.

 

As for Vanitas, he's not a Heartless. As I've stated before he is similar but not exact. Vanitas is half of Ventus. Vanitas is Ventus' darkness and half of Ventus' heart, while a Heartless is the result of a person losing their whole heart before the darkness physically manifests.

 

If Vanitas is a Heartless, then why can't other Heartless create Unversed?

 

Let's also remember the fact that once a Heartless is created, the body fades away to then become a Nobody. Every time somebody turns into a Heartless, a Nobody is created as well. Ventus clearly never turned into a Nobody.

[Felixx 6,646]

Xehanort didn't just come up with the idea of 13 vessels during DDD. As he stated in DDD, "In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal." He knew of the 7 lights and the 13 darknesses. That was the whole reason he used Maleficent to gather the 7 Princesses of Heart while he created Organization XIII. As he states in the Xehanort reports, he is getting too old and thus, could die soon. Until he saw Terra, Xehanort had no suitable vessel to put his whole heart in. But as we all know, Xehanort always prepares back-up plans.

 

As he states in BBS to Terra, "You are just one of many roads I might choose to take. Trust me, I made certain of that." For a man like Xehanort, it would make sense to have back-ups.

 

Quote from Dream Drop Distance Post-Game Interview:[/size]

 

• What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

Uhmm no... Nomura came up with the whole 7 vs 13 thing in DDD. It wasn't a thing in BBS. Why else would Xehanort talk all the time about the X-Blade that gets created when pure light clashes against pure darkness, back in BBS? Xehanort went out of his way to make sure Vanitas and Ventus became the X-blade and even stated in his own reports that was the way to make it. The whole "I was acting hastily" part was just Nomura's way to ressolve this retcon, a pretty bad way imo.

 

Xehanort Report 10:

 

"As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.

Ventus' heart of pure light and Vanitas's heart of pure darkness...If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I know the χ-blade would be forged."

 

If he had known it took 7 lights and 13 darknesses why would he also "know" pure light and pure darkness could work? Makes no sense at all. Of course in DDD he said that he in fact had known about it. But like I said, Nomura's retcon

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Uhmm no... Nomura came up with the whole 7 vs 13 thing in DDD. It wasn't a thing in BBS. Why else would Xehanort talk all the time about the X-Blade that gets created when pure light clashes against pure darkness, back in BBS? Xehanort went out of his way to make sure Vanitas and Ventus became the X-blade and even stated in his own reports that was the way to make it. The whole "I was acting hastily" part was just Nomura's way to ressolve this issue, a pretty bad was imo.

I'm not talking about Nomura. I'm talking about Xehanort. Retcon or not, DDD established that Xehanort knew about the 7 lights and 13 darknesses, but lost sight of the correct way in BBS due to his eagerness.

 

In Birth by Sleep, Xehanort used Maleficent so she would gather the 7 Princesses for him while he would eventually prepare Organization XIII. So, Xehanort had plans for a while.

 

Whether one wants to call it a retcon or not and whether one thinks the resolve was good or bad does not matter in this case. Dream Drop Distance is a canon game that established things, gave answers and new questions to be resolved in future games. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but that's not the topic of discussion.

 

It's clear that Xehanort planned to have and already had other vessels in Birth by Sleep with one line:

 

"You are just one of many roads I might choose to take. Trust me, I made certain of that." Obviously referring to Braig, Isa/Saix and other vessels, such as Vanitas.

 

Xehanort was originally going to use Ventus as a vessel, but since he would not embrace the darkness, he would use him for another purpose; create the X-Blade by clashing the two poles of pure light and pure darkness. Xehanort was getting too old and thus, was running out of time. So when he split Ventus and Vanitas apart, Xehanort had no vessel to take, until he eventually met Terra.

 

Dream Drop Distance establishes why Xehanort didn't do the correct way in Birth by Sleep. Whether one thinks it's a good or bad reason does not matter in this discussion. It's all fact; it's part of the story. It explains things and that's it.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Master Eraqus

[Alja 61]

Nomura might be retconning stuff but that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit into what has been established before. Like mentioned twice already, Xehanort says in Blank Points that Terra is one of many roads. Nomura specifically gave himself an opening there to have Xehanort scheme many things at once.

 

It makes sense that Xehanort has some hierarchy to his plans. He wants the Keyblade, he knows two ways to summon it

1) Two equal powers clash, one of Darkness and one of Light

2) The X-Blade shattered into 20 pieces, 13 of Darkness, 7 of Light, those have to come together again.

 

So obviously he'd go for the easier plot, first, extracts Ven's darkness. Kid looks nearly dead to him, he brings him to Destiny Islands to die. Seemingly, his first attempt failed even though he had the perfect candidate.

Makes sense for him to switch over to his new plan (off screen), planting a piece of his heart in Vanitas, when he then realizes hey, Ven isn't dead at all, he can try and continue his original plan because it means less work for him.

 

Unless it's gonna be outright denied, it is a possibility. Or, like I suggested before, that Vanitas was just as unstable as Ven until he possibly latched onto Xehanort's heart.

[KHShaderoom 28]

I keep calling Vanitas a Heartless because that's what he is, the pure darkness in Ventus' heart extracted and given form, which is exactly what Heartless are, the darkness in people's hearts which devours the heart of the person and casts off the body into nothingness, which forms a Heartless. Your belief that Heartless did not exist at the time of Birth By Sleep is demonstrably false, Heartless have always existed in the Kingdom Hearts universe naturally. There's two kinds of Heartless, purebred Heartless, which are natural beings formed entirely of the darkness from people's hearts and have always existed, and emblem Heartless, which are Heartless created by Xehanort artificially decades down the line from Birth By Sleep when he was the true Ansem's apprentice. There's the time Xehanort threw Ven against Heartless to try to get him to use the darkness which prompted him to create Vanitas in the first place and Aqua's journey through the Realm of Darkness in Birth By Sleep's final mix "A Fragmentary Passage if you need proof of that. Vanitas is definitely different from an ordinary Heartless, but they are composed of exactly the same stuff, the only difference between Vanitas and a Heartless is he still has a functioning heart just like Xehanort's Heartless which is why he can still think like a normal human being and thus keeps a vaguely human form before it's solidified once Ven merges his heart with Sora, as opposed to Heartless which don't and thus act only on pure instinct.

 

Heartless don't have pupils... except you know, Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas. Regular Heartless don't have pupils because they don't mimic human form to that extent like Xehanort's Heartless and Vanitas do. With all natural heartless the vast majority of their body is black and their eyes are gold, Anti Sora (the Kingdom Hearts enemy, not Sora's Anti-Form BTW) is the most readily apparent proof of this, thus it follows that Vanitas' hair and eyes would be.

 

That's not confirmation, Nomura is referring ONLY to golden eyes of the members of the True Organization 13, not that any character that has golden eyes is necessarily possessed by Xehanort and certainly not Vanitas. Xehanort was not placing his heart within anyone but Terra at the time of Birth By Sleep, therefore he could not be responsible for Vanitas having golden eyes in any way whatsoever. The only reason Xehanort began placing his pieces of his heart into other people was to attempt to forge the X-blade, which he had no reason to do at the time of Birth By Sleep no matter how much of a master planner he is, he states this in Dream Drop Distance directly:

Xehanort: "I once tried to create my own pure light and darkness to forge the X-blade, but the attempt ended in failure. In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal."

 

Xehanort has no reason whatsoever to start putting his heart into people until AFTER Birth By Sleep's attempt to make the X-blade fails, he doesn't KNOW that his method wouldn't work at the time.

 

Right back at ya.

Let me break it down:

 

Vanitas has golden eyes and black hair but he is not a Heartless

 

1) A Heartless: only if the WHOLE heart is lost to darkness. A Heartless is created when a person is devoured by the Darkness in their heart and turn into a Heartless. Heartless are born when a heart is consumed by the darkness within it, or when a Heartless steals the heart. Same thing

 

In vens case, Ventus didn’t even completely lose his heart, he only lost HALF of it. Vanitas is just the embodiment of the darkness in Ventus’ heart. Its just HALF of his heart, not the whole. Ven didn't lose his whole heart because he still had half of it remaining. Therefore, Ven did not lose his heart to darkness.

 

2) A human can turn into a Heartless by the dark half of their heart. (Pureblood) Heartless are only created when a Heart force to its further in darkness.

 

Vanitas can't be “lost” or "force" by his own Darkness because he is already PURE darkness. Lol that's like adding pink paint to your walls even though your walls were already painted pink.So it doesn't make sense. Vanitas can't be a heartless. Vanitas is a “human” being and his heart made out of darkness. That's it. I dont know whats so hard to understand. I'm pretty sure nomura would have confirmed vanitas being a heartless before the confusion but he doesn't because vanitas isn't a heartless. He is just half of Ventus. The end

 

 

(Emblem) Heartless never existed during BBS era. In BBS, Only the (Purebloods) heartless only in the RoD. We don’t see the hearts a pureblood releases. (Pureblood) Heartless DON'T release hearts.

 

“Question: Are there new enemies you can confirm that are not shown in the screens?”

 

“Nomura: The new enemy is not a Heartless, or a Nobody, because the story takes place BEFORE even they appear. I can only give out more information, little by little, as time passes: an example being like the Shadow enemies that are heartless, and the Dusk enemies that are nobodies.”

 

Only the way to make the X-blade is when a heart of pure light and a heart of pure darkness clash. Vanitas DOES have a heart and he is a human. Vanitas is a being with a heart of pure darkness. Not a heartless, not a nobody, not an unversed (well maybe an unversed imo). When Ven defeated Vanitas and destroyed the X-Blade, vanitas faded in white sparks, basically into nothing. When pureblood is defeated, they dissolve into black smoke. If vanitas was a (pureblood, since emblem never existed yet) heartless, he should have dissolved into black smoke but reality he doesn't because he isn't a heartless. Either Vanitas was completely destroyed or Vanitas' heart is residing with someone. My theory is vanitas is residing with YX. Young Xehanort said he went back in time to get splintered versions of Xehanort. YX appeared in BBS. He could've picked up vanitas' shattered heart. And if vanitas wasn't residing with Young Xehanort, then what's the point putting him in the scene with YX? It could've been someone else than vanitas. That’s why i'm assuming that vanitas is residing with YX

 

I can theorize that Vanitas is half xehanort. We can assume Master Xehanort did for Vanitas, like what Sora did for Ventus at the beginning of the game. But I do not have evidence for that. He was born with the mask on so we don't know if he was born with golden eyes or not

 

 

“Nomura:Afterwards Braig’s ears become sharper, and his brown eyes change to gold. This is because he was influenced by Xehanort who he was working with.”

 

 

Because again the golden eyes have nothing to do with darkness and everything to do with Master Xehanort's heart.

 

Nomura confirmed that having golden eyes is a matter of how deeply you are connected to Xehanort. Golden eyes and pointy ears equal xehanort’s influence. It destroys your theory about whole golden eyes representing darkness because, Nomura says that eye color is influenced by Xehanort himself. You can't argue over a confirmation from the creator LMAO

 

​Now, can you stop calling him a heartless because he isnt. Vanitas is Vanitas

Nomura might be retconning stuff but that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit into what has been established before. Like mentioned twice already, Xehanort says in Blank Points that Terra is one of many roads. Nomura specifically gave himself an opening there to have Xehanort scheme many things at once.

 

It makes sense that Xehanort has some hierarchy to his plans. He wants the Keyblade, he knows two ways to summon it

1) Two equal powers clash, one of Darkness and one of Light

2) The X-Blade shattered into 20 pieces, 13 of Darkness, 7 of Light, those have to come together again.

 

So obviously he'd go for the easier plot, first, extracts Ven's darkness. Kid looks nearly dead to him, he brings him to Destiny Islands to die. Seemingly, his first attempt failed even though he had the perfect candidate.

Makes sense for him to switch over to his new plan (off screen), planting a piece of his heart in Vanitas, when he then realizes hey, Ven isn't dead at all, he can try and continue his original plan because it means less work for him.

 

Unless it's gonna be outright denied, it is a possibility. Or, like I suggested before, that Vanitas was just as unstable as Ven until he possibly latched onto Xehanort's heart.

It's probably the way nomura worded it:/

I don't know how people get vanitas confused with a heartless. Vanitas isn't a heartless

Edited July 27, 2017 by KHShaderoom

[Felixx 6,646]

I'm not talking about Nomura. I'm talking about Xehanort. Retcon or not, DDD established that Xehanort knew about the 7 lights and 13 darknesses, but lost sight of the correct way in BBS due to his eagerness.

 

In Birth by Sleep, Xehanort used Maleficent so she would gather the 7 Princesses for him while he would eventually prepare Organization XIII. So, Xehanort had plans for a while.

 

Whether one wants to call it a retcon or not and whether one thinks the resolve was good or bad does not matter in this case. Dream Drop Distance is a canon game that established things, gave answers and new questions to be resolved in future games. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but that's not the topic of discussion.

 

It's clear that Xehanort planned to have and already had other vessels in Birth by Sleep with one line:

 

"You are just one of many roads I might choose to take. Trust me, I made certain of that." Obviously referring to Braig, Isa/Saix and other vessels, such as Vanitas.

 

Xehanort was originally going to use Ventus as a vessel, but since he would not embrace the darkness, he would use him for another purpose; create the X-Blade by clashing the two poles of pure light and pure darkness. Xehanort was getting too old and thus, was running out of time. So when he split Ventus and Vanitas apart, Xehanort had no vessel to take, until he eventually met Terra.

 

Dream Drop Distance establishes why Xehanort didn't do the correct way in Birth by Sleep. Whether one thinks it's a good or bad reason does not matter in this discussion. It's all fact; it's part of the story. It explains things and that's it.

This thread is about Vanitas having yellow eyes. Vanitas was created before DDD was made. That means when the creators decided to give him yellow eyes they did that without knowing about the whole 13 vessels thing. Hence, the original reason for the yellow eyes can't be related to that. And I'm talking about the original reason.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

This thread is about Vanitas having yellow eyes. Vanitas was created before DDD was made. That means when the creators decided to give him yellow eyes they did that without knowing about the whole 13 vessels thing. Hence, the original reason for the yellow eyes can't be related to that. And I'm talking about the original reason.

It's clear that Xehanort having multiple vessels was an idea in BBS. It was hinted at in Blank Points, when Xehanort talks about "many roads."

 

Quotes from Birth by Sleep Ultimania:

 

 

 

 

• Comparing the Organization members when they were human to when they were in the Organization, apart from Xehanort, only Isa and Braig have differently-shaped ears and differently-coloured eyes - why is this?

It’s a question of whether or not they’re deeply connected to Xehanort. In Braig’s case, comparing the scene where he’s injured in his battle with Terra and flares up at Xehanort, his appearance afterwards changes, which hints that something happened with Xehanort in between.

 

• So you’re saying you can’t tell us yet (laughs). Braig had a big role in the game, and he was a little ominous…?

In the final scene where Braig appears, his eyes have changed to gold.

• Did something happen between him and Master Xehanort?

I think there was a line where Master Xehanort says that he has “many roads that [he] might choose to take”, and that’s also referring to Braig.

• “Also” referring to Braig!? You’re holding something back there… 

 

 

 

It's quite clear that by Birth by Sleep, the concept of being part-Xehanort was hinted at in this game, as Braig is initially seen with brown eyes and then later seen with yellow eyes. These yellow eyes are not only exactly the same as Xehanort's, but also exactly the same as Vanitas'.

 

The Kingdom Hearts games have always left some things unanswered to then be answered in later games. In BBS, the yellow eyes could not be explained as that would spoil something, but then DDD answers that question with yellow eyes being a result of being part-Xehanort.

 

We can't just ignore answers from games for questions in previous ones. If that would be the case, then we should ignore answers such as Xion's disappearance and Ventus' heart being the reason why Roxas can dual-wield.

 

These games always leave questions to be answered in the future. In this case, it's clear that others being part-Xehanort was planned in BBS, with or without the concept of the 13 vessels in DDD. Since the first game, it's been shown that hearts shape the body:

 

• The Robed Figure (Ansem SOD) takes over Riku's body and then changes its form to look like Xehanort in his thirties or fourties.
• Riku's body changes to look like Ansem SOD in 358/2 days and KH2 since he still has Ansem's heart inside him.
• Roxas' body looks like Ventus because he has Ventus' heart.
• Terra's body takes different features as soon as Xehanort transfers his heart, giving Terra white hair, pointed ears and yellow eyes.

As shown with the quotes earlier, it's clear that Braig being part-Xehanort was planned out, but obviously, Nomura doesn't want to give away the secret. When talking to Terra, Xehanort is referring to Braig and others as "many roads," meaning that like Terra, there are other vessels.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Master Eraqus

[Alja 61]

I don't know how people get vanitas confused with a heartless. Vanitas isn't a heartless

Ah, can you tell me were the screen shot comes from? It's an interesting piece of information because the "doesn't show signs of collapsing" would definitely negate the possibility of Xehanort simply stabilizing his heart (like Sora does for Ven).

 

This thread is about Vanitas having yellow eyes. Vanitas was created before DDD was made. That means when the creators decided to give him yellow eyes they did that without knowing about the whole 13 vessels thing. Hence, the original reason for the yellow eyes can't be related to that. And I'm talking about the original reason.

The thing is, the original reason will never be known unless Nomura actually says it. It could be because it looks cool, to make sure he looks different from Sora, to make sure Venitas looks different from Ventus so the viewer and Aqua can tell they're not fighting Ven.

Fact is still that later games propose an explanation, as pointed out several times even BBS already proposes an explanation (albeit not yet fully articulated to keep the suspense or maybe enable changes to the plot for later games).

[KHShaderoom 28]

Ah, can you tell me were the screen shot comes from? It's an interesting piece of information because the "doesn't show signs of collapsing" would definitely negate the possibility of Xehanort simply stabilizing his heart (like Sora does for Ven).

 

 

The thing is, the original reason will never be known unless Nomura actually says it. It could be because it looks cool, to make sure he looks different from Sora, to make sure Venitas looks different from Ventus so the viewer and Aqua can tell they're not fighting Ven.

Fact is still that later games propose an explanation, as pointed out several times even BBS already proposes an explanation (albeit not yet fully articulated to keep the suspense or maybe enable changes to the plot for later games).

It was from someone saying how vanitas couldn't be a heartless.

[Felixx 6,646]

It's clear that Xehanort having multiple vessels was an idea in BBS. It was hinted at in Blank Points, when Xehanort talks about "many roads."

 

Quotes from Birth by Sleep Ultimania:

 

 

 

 

 

• Comparing the Organization members when they were human to when they were in the Organization, apart from Xehanort, only Isa and Braig have differently-shaped ears and differently-coloured eyes - why is this?

It’s a question of whether or not they’re deeply connected to Xehanort. In Braig’s case, comparing the scene where he’s injured in his battle with Terra and flares up at Xehanort, his appearance afterwards changes, which hints that something happened with Xehanort in between.

 

• So you’re saying you can’t tell us yet (laughs). Braig had a big role in the game, and he was a little ominous…?

In the final scene where Braig appears, his eyes have changed to gold.

• Did something happen between him and Master Xehanort?

I think there was a line where Master Xehanort says that he has “many roads that [he] might choose to take”, and that’s also referring to Braig.

• “Also” referring to Braig!? You’re holding something back there…

 

 

It's quite clear that by Birth by Sleep, the concept of being part-Xehanort was hinted at in this game, as Braig is initially seen with brown eyes and then later seen with yellow eyes. These yellow eyes are not only exactly the same as Xehanort's, but also exactly the same as Vanitas'.

 

The Kingdom Hearts games have always left some things unanswered to then be answered in later games. In BBS, the yellow eyes could not be explained as that would spoil something, but then DDD answers that question with yellow eyes being a result of being part-Xehanort.

 

We can't just ignore answers from games for questions in previous ones. If that would be the case, then we should ignore answers such as Xion's disappearance and Ventus' heart being the reason why Roxas can dual-wield.

 

These games always leave questions to be answered in the future. In this case, it's clear that others being part-Xehanort was planned in BBS, with or without the concept of the 13 vessels in DDD. Since the first game, it's been shown that hearts shape the body:

 

• The Robed Figure (Ansem SOD) takes over Riku's body and then changes its form to look like Xehanort in his thirties or fourties.
• Riku's body changes to look like Ansem SOD in 358/2 days and KH2 since he still has Ansem's heart inside him.
• Roxas' body looks like Ventus because he has Ventus' heart.
• Terra's body takes different features as soon as Xehanort transfers his heart, giving Terra white hair, pointed ears and yellow eyes.

As shown with the quotes earlier, it's clear that Braig being part-Xehanort was planned out, but obviously, Nomura doesn't want to give away the secret. When talking to Terra, Xehanort is referring to Braig and others as "many roads," meaning that like Terra, there are other vessels.

Hmm okay. Assuming the whole Xehanort-puts-his-heart-into-others concept was already present in BBS, what was the purpose of it? The only case that makes sense to me is Terra, since Xehanort wanted his younger and powerful body. But why Braig and Vanitas? And I still mean from the developer's side, since DDD hasn't been a thing back then. Why did they introduce this concept?

 

Not saying you're wrong, I actually didn't know that Braig had brown eyes at first and then yellow. I just wonder why that concept got introduced without having the 13 vessels part in mind.

 

Ah, can you tell me were the screen shot comes from? It's an interesting piece of information because the "doesn't show signs of collapsing" would definitely negate the possibility of Xehanort simply stabilizing his heart (like Sora does for Ven).

 

 

The thing is, the original reason will never be known unless Nomura actually says it. It could be because it looks cool, to make sure he looks different from Sora, to make sure Venitas looks different from Ventus so the viewer and Aqua can tell they're not fighting Ven.

Fact is still that later games propose an explanation, as pointed out several times even BBS already proposes an explanation (albeit not yet fully articulated to keep the suspense or maybe enable changes to the plot for later games).

Yeah but later explanations suck I just wanna know what the original intention was.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Hmm okay. Assuming the whole Xehanort-puts-his-heart-into-others concept was already present in BBS, what was the purpose of it? The only case that makes sense to me is Terra, since Xehanort wanted his younger and powerful body. But why Braig and Vanitas? And I still mean from the developer's side, since DDD hasn't been a thing back then. Why did they introduce this concept?

Yeah but later explanations suck I just wanna know what the original intention was.

Most likely, they were just back-up. Birth by Sleep shows that Master Xehanort is quite the planner, so he might have thought that it wouldn't hurt to have others at the ready. Plus, having a piece of his heart most likely changes a bit of their personality. While Braig pretty much had the same personality after having yellow eyes, he did seem to be more loyal to Xehanort, especially after hating him after losing his eye. Though, it's possible that Braig was scared of him and thought it'd be best to stay on the winning team.

 

Though in my opinion, the more likely answer was to leave things open to set up the future, which isn't really something new for the series:

 

• KH1: Where are Sora, Donald and Goofy going in this field and what's in the letter Pluto has?
• KH2: What's in the letter Sora, Riku and Kairi got?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Master Eraqus

[Felixx 6,646]

Most likely, they were just back-up. Birth by Sleep shows that Master Xehanort is quite the planner, so he might have thought that it wouldn't hurt to have others at the ready. Plus, having a piece of his heart most likely changes a bit of their personality. While Braig pretty much had the same personality after having yellow eyes, he did seem to be more loyal to Xehanort, especially after hating him after losing his eye. Though, it's possible that Braig was scared of him and thought it'd be best to stay on the winning team.

 

Though in my opinion, the more likely answer was to leave things open to set up the future, which isn't really something new for the series:

 

 

• KH1: Where are Sora, Donald and Goofy going in this field and what's in the letter Pluto has?
• KH2: What's in the letter Sora, Riku and Kairi got?

That actually makes a lot of sense I assume that would explain why Xehanort has also put a piece of his heart into Vanitas. I mean we can't know for sure since it was never stated, but it's the most plausible solution.

Anyway thanks for the discussion man!

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

That actually makes a lot of sense I assume that would explain why Xehanort has also put a piece of his heart into Vanitas. I mean we can't know for sure since it was never stated, but it's the most plausible solution.

Anyway thanks for the discussion man!

No problem and thank you for the discussion as well. Thank you so much for having a civil argument/discussion as it's a nice break from all the other arguments on the internet I've had, mainly involving insults, lack of understanding the term "opinion" and claims of having relationships with my mother. disgusted grunt 

[BaeWulf95 39]

This is kind of just my own two cents here, but I believe Vanitas has yellow eyes because of his nature: being Ventus' darkness given form. I know yellow eyes means you've been norted as Nomura has said this before, but isn't there a process for that to happen? I remember Xehanort (or someone) explaining that you first have to drown the light of someone's heart in darkness and then Xehanort is able to control them through their own darkness.

Vanitas is nothing BUT darkness, Ven is his light, so can Xehanort really turn him into one of his vessels? Actually, it seems like Vanitas would be perfect for such since you wouldn't have to worry about drowning his light, but for what Vanitas is, is norting even possible for him now? He seems too unstable for it. And even if Xehanort can, why would he? It's not like he'd expect Vanitas to just turn over a new leaf and betray him, he is nothing but DARKNESS. The last thing Xehanort would expect of Vanitas is betrayal so long as he dangles an option of salvation in front of him. He's still a perfect candidate for being a Seeker of Darkness and he's already an apprentice of his, so why bother?

I realize that'd leave him a loose end and Xehanort doesn't leave loose ends as he thinks about every outcome, but what if, just this one time, he doesn't and it leads to his downfall? Death by his own apprentice! YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER MADE VANITAS IN THE FIRST PLACE, XEHANORT! THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE: THE MISTAKE THAT COST YOU EVERYTHING BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO RASH!

 

But I'm just rambling here, it's my own personal opinion mainly based off of the novels (which I know aren't canon ) and BBS. To sum it up, all I'm saying is Vanitas is a special case and I don't think the usual rules apply to him; kind of like Namine. His yellow eyes may just be yellow simply because he's Ven's darkness.

There, I contributed to this conversation. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Gadget