[SPOILER] Disproval: Luxu is NOT Eraqus and Xehanort's Master, or Master's Master

[Svard 164]

So it has come to my attention that there are a great many people out there who believe that Luxu is A) Eraqus and Xehanort's Master, or B) Is their Master's Master. However, there are some flaws to that idea that people tend to neglect, and some things that I will present to the table to try and disprove this theory.

 

 

Number 1: The Keyblade War is ANCIENT!

 

MX: "In ancient times, people believed that light was a gift from and unseen land by the name of Kingdom Hearts"

 

YX: "But of all the Keyblades in existence, Master Xehanort's is the most ancient."

 

Xigbar: "This is all connected to the ancient Keyblade War, isn't that right?

 

It has been stated a few times in the series that the Keyblade War is ancient, which implies that the war is older than a mere one, or even two hundred years. Usually when someone says ancient, they are talking about something that is far older than recent history, something from the very distant past. We're talking about something that is potentially over a thousand years old. For most people, they would probably even refer to ancient as something no younger than the end of the Roman Empire! You add than to the fact that all of the Foretellers' Keyblades have Roman/Greek-like pillars as handles, and the implication of them being from over a thousand years back is even stronger.

 

 

Number 2: There have been multiple generations of Keyblade wielders since the end of the Keyblade War.

 

YX: "Every Keyblade master is bequeathed a Keyblade of his very own. With the passing of time, as you can imagine, more and more Keyblades were forged to be handed down. But of all the Keyblades in existence, Master Xehanort's is the most ancient."

 

With this line alone, Young Xehanort implies that there have been many generations of Keyblade wielders. If that is so, then there would have certainly been more than a one or two generational gap between Luxu and Eraqus or Xehanort. Assuming that people in the KH universe aren't living longer than the current average lifespan IRL, then how could Luxu have even been present during Eraqus' and Xehanort's training if this is indeed true?

 

 

Number 3: That scene at the beginning of 0.2 takes place at the end of the Keyblade War.

 

So despite those pillars of rock that we see that are similar to the ones Master Xehanort made in the battle against TAV, there are some things that we see that implicate that this scene actually takes place at the end of the Keyblade War. First being that we see a Starlight Keyblade there, which, to me anyway, is indicative of a circa KHx story piece. Next, we see that, when Kingdom Hearts appears, there are multiple glowing lights gathering to Kingdom Hearts. Now, some of us recall the scene at the end of KHx where, during the Keyblade War, we see hearts floating adrift as more and more wielders fall. Connecting those two points, I'd wager that those glowing lights are hearts gravitating toward Kingdom Hearts. Or, it could even be that it's Lux, as Lux is needed to summon Kingdom Hearts, according to Gula in Backcover. We, so far anyway, have no evidence of Lux being collected in CE Kingdom Hearts, and I certainly don't recall any more than seven beings present at the time of BBS. And then, of course, we see Luxu there, with ol' No Name and the box of MOM's dead mouse collection, or whatever. If, in fact, No Name is a one of a kind Keyblade, then how could Luxu have it at the same time as the current events of Kingdom Hearts if one, he's no longer alive, and two, if Master Xehanort has it?

 

 

Number 4: Case of Luxu

 

SO I saw a video earlier today where a gentleman was explaining one of MOM's quotes from Backcover that goes:

 

MOM: You need to pass down that Keyblade to your apprentice, and then him to his, so that my eye can see the future.

 

Despite his argument that this was proof of Luxu being within two generations of Eraqus and Xehanort, and despite what others of you might think, there are two things you need to consider. One being that just because MOM says this, it doesn't mean that there is a literal meaning for him to only see two generations worth of Keyblade wielders. It seems more like he wants Luxu to start a whole lineage of wielders that will continuously inherit and pass on No Name. Second, we have to remember that just because it's an official translation, it doesn't mean that it is a direct translation of what is said in the Japanese version. In fact, I just so happen to have the Japanese text of the line, saying:

 

ともかくそのキーブレードが君弟子から弟子へと受け継がれはるか先の未来まで見つめつづける我か目となるワケよ

 

Now, while I myself don't know much about Japanese, especially so when it comes to grammar and kanji, and I know Google Translate ain't 100% accurate, Google translated it to this:

 

Anyway that key blade is inherited from your disciples to disciples far far away Wake that will keep on staring at the future far ahead

 

Again, while this translation is certainly not 100% accurate, there is a clue in there that will lead us to further conclusion to this matter, and that is the words "far away" and "far ahead" (and "haruka" is indeed in the original Japanese sentence). The fact that the MOM wants to see into the "distant" or "far away" future implies that he wants to see beyond just one or two generations of Keyblade wielders. If you wanted to see a future that is distant, are you only implying that your want to see the events of a one or two hundred year future? I know I wouldn't. If I'm talking distant, then I'm going to mean DISTANT, like HUNDREDS of years, potentially even a thousand+ years into the future! I want to know as many events as possible so that I can write an epic book about all the major, potentially world-changing events that are to happen, for as long as my Keyblade, with its gazing eye, can see!

 

 

Anyway though, I digress. Perhaps, if anyone here knows Japanese, they could translate that line directly, so we can see its intended meaning, whether to prove, or even potentially disprove my case.

 

Also, what do you guys think? Do you think it's possible that Luxu has a closer connection to Eraqus and/or Xehanort than we know? Or do you think that it's more distant than that in terms of a generational gap?

 

------

 

UPDATE: As Kingdomhe mentioned in his posts, there is an interview with a couple of lines that almost seem to point either way. One thing that stands out is that the Keyblade was succeeded from Luxu, and "passed trough time", implicating that it has been passed down over multiple generations. However, what Nomura says in answer before that may very well implicate something else. Oh Nomura... you Cheshire Cat, you. Anyway, I think it's best to leave these two lines from Nomura up for debate.

 

- So the Keyblade that received the Master’s eye is being passed around in the world of the future then?

Nomura: Well, it’s hard to confirm whether that’s really true or not. We’re talking about the Master here. In his words, he would probably say something like, “But that can’t be possible!! Right??”

- Huh!? But...That being said, the aforementioned Keyblade...It’s the same one that Master Xehanort holds in the future, right?

Nomura: Yes, it’s the very same one. Succeeding from Luxu, it’s been passed through time and is now held by Master Xehanort. So it can be considered that Master Xehanort is the legitimate successor of that Keyblade, meanwhile Master Eraqus inherited control over the Land of Departure.

 

------

Edited February 19, 2017 by Svard

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

So it has come to my attention that there are a great many people out there who believe that Luxu is A) Eraqus and Xehanort's Master, or B) Is their Master's Master. However, there are some flaws to that idea that people tend to neglect, and some things that I will present to the table to try and disprove this theory.

 

 

Number 1: The Keyblade War is ANCIENT!

 

MX: "In ancient times, people believed that light was a gift from and unseen land by the name of Kingdom Hearts"

 

YX: "But of all the Keyblades in existence, Master Xehanort's is the most ancient."

 

Xigbar: "This is all connected to the ancient Keyblade War, isn't that right?

 

It has been stated a few times in the series that the Keyblade War is ancient, which implies that the war is older than a mere one, or even two hundred years. Usually when someone says ancient, they are talking about something that is far older than recent history, something from the very distant past. We're talking about something that is potentially over a thousand years old. For most people, they would probably even refer to ancient as something no younger than the end of the Roman Empire! You add than to the fact that all of the Foretellers' Keyblades have Roman/Greek-like pillars as handles, and the implication of them being from over a thousand years back is even stronger.

 

 

Number 2: There have been multiple generations of Keyblade wielders since the end of the Keyblade War.

 

YX: "Every Keyblade master is bequeathed a Keyblade of his very own. With the passing of time, as you can imagine, more and more Keyblades were forged to be handed down. But of all the Keyblades in existence, Master Xehanort's is the most ancient."

 

With this line alone, Young Xehanort implies that there have been many generations of Keyblade wielders. If that is so, then there would have certainly been more than a one or two generational gap between Luxu and Eraqus or Xehanort. Assuming that people in the KH universe aren't living longer than the current average lifespan IRL, then how could Luxu have even been present during Eraqus' and Xehanort's training if this is indeed true?

 

 

Number 3: That scene at the beginning of 0.2 takes place at the end of the Keyblade War.

 

So despite those pillars of rock that we see that are similar to the ones Master Xehanort made in the battle against TAV, there are some things that we see that implicate that this scene actually takes place at the end of the Keyblade War. First being that we see a Starlight Keyblade there, which, to me anyway, is indicative of a circa KHx story piece. Next, we see that, when Kingdom Hearts appears, there are multiple glowing lights gathering to Kingdom Hearts. Now, some of us recall the scene at the end of KHx where, during the Keyblade War, we see hearts floating adrift as more and more wielders fall. Connecting those two points, I'd wager that those glowing lights are hearts gravitating toward Kingdom Hearts. Or, it could even be that it's Lux, as Lux is needed to summon Kingdom Hearts, according to Gula in Backcover. We, so far anyway, have no evidence of Lux being collected in CE Kingdom Hearts, and I certainly don't recall any more than seven beings present at the time of BBS. And then, of course, we see Luxu there, with ol' No Name and the box of MOM's dead mouse collection, or whatever. If, in fact, No Name is a one of a kind Keyblade, then how could Luxu have it at the same time as the current events of Kingdom Hearts if one, he's no longer alive, and two, if Master Xehanort has it?

 

 

Number 4: Case of Luxu

 

SO I saw a video earlier today where a gentleman was explaining one of MOM's quotes from Backcover that goes:

 

MOM: You need to pass down that Keyblade to your apprentice, and then him to his, so that my eye can see the future.

 

Despite his argument that this was proof of Luxu being within two generations of Eraqus and Xehanort, and despite what others of you might think, there are two things you need to consider. One being that just because MOM says this, it doesn't mean that there is a literal meaning for him to only see two generations worth of Keyblade wielders. It seems more like he wants Luxu to start a whole lineage of wielders that will continuously inherit and pass on No Name. Second, we have to remember that just because it's an official translation, it doesn't mean that it is a direct translation of what is said in the Japanese version. In fact, I just so happen to have the Japanese text of the line, saying:

 

ともかくそのキーブレードが君弟子から弟子へと受け継がれはるか先の未来まで見つめつづける我か目となるワケよ

 

Now, while I myself don't know much about Japanese, especially so when it comes to grammar and kanji, and I know Google Translate ain't 100% accurate, Google translated it to this:

 

Anyway that key blade is inherited from your disciples to disciples far far away Wake that will keep on staring at the future far ahead

 

Again, while this translation is certainly not 100% accurate, there is a clue in there that will lead us to further conclusion to this matter, and that is the words "far away" and "far ahead" (and "haruka" is indeed in the original Japanese sentence). The fact that the MOM wants to see into the "distant" or "far away" future implies that he wants to see beyond just one or two generations of Keyblade wielders. If you wanted to see a future that is distant, are you only implying that your want to see the events of a one or two hundred year future? I know I wouldn't. If I'm talking distant, then I'm going to mean DISTANT, like HUNDREDS of years, potentially even a thousand+ years into the future! I want to know as many events as possible so that I can write an epic book about all the major, potentially world-changing events that are to happen, for as long as my Keyblade, with its gazing eye, can see!

 

 

Anyway though, I digress. Perhaps, if anyone here knows Japanese, they could translate that line directly, so we can see its intended meaning, whether to prove, or even potentially disprove my case.

 

Also, what do you guys think? Do you think it's possible that Luxu has a closer connection to Eraqus and/or Xehanort than we know? Or do you think that it's more distant than that in terms of a generational gap?

Well, Keyblade masters can live forever as long as they have a vessel, so yeah. Plus, Xehanort is looking for the Box that Luxu has and there would be no way for him to know about it if Luxu was their master. Also, in the KH3 E3 2015 trailer, Xehanort is talking about the Master's favorite story, it's probably his fav. because he lived it.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Kingdomhe

[Oli 1,679]

This was a really well written post with solid facts and evidences (except that google translate part, although I believe it is true, we'll actually need a proper translation so people who think Luxu's their master won't get confused or whatever).

 

 

Plus, Xehanort is looking for the Box that Luxu has and there would be no way for him to know about it if Luxu was their master.

 

I'm gonna need a source for this because it is never stated in any game and I'm not sure if it was said in an interview or famitsu article or whatever. So yeah, send me your sources if you want me to believe this.

 

Also, in the KH3 E3 2015 trailer, Xehanort is talking about the Master's favorite story, it's probably his fav. because he lived it.

 

*deep sigh* "it's probably his fav because he lived it" so your taking a wild guess ok. Their master knows about that story the same way Kairi's grandmother knows about it, or the same way he has No Name. Because It was passed through generations.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

This was a really well written post with solid facts and evidences (except that google translate part, although I believe it is true, we'll actually need a proper translation so people who think Luxu's their master won't get confused or whatever).

 

I'm gonna need a source for this because it is never stated in any game and I'm not sure if it was said in an interview or famitsu article or whatever. So yeah, send me your sources if you want me to believe this.

 

 

*deep sigh* "it's probably his fav because he lived it" so your taking a wild guess ok. Their master knows about that story the same way Kairi's grandmother knows about it, or the same way he has No Name. Because It was passed through generations.

For the interview just look up the last one, it's not that hard. And yeah, it's a guess, heck all of his are guesses too until is written in stone.

[Shard the Gentleman 2,891]

I kind of really like the theory that Luxu, rather than continuing to pass down the keyblade, just made each of his apprentices his vessel. Xehanort had to learn it somewhere, right? Now I'm not saying that Luxu is Xehanort, but maybe Xehanort had his own thirst, and killed Luxu.

[Zimomo 143]

 

Number 3: That scene at the beginning of 0.2 takes place at the end of the Keyblade War.

 

So despite those pillars of rock that we see that are similar to the ones Master Xehanort made in the battle against TAV, there are some things that we see that implicate that this scene actually takes place at the end of the Keyblade War. First being that we see a Starlight Keyblade there, which, to me anyway, is indicative of a circa KHx story piece. Next, we see that, when Kingdom Hearts appears, there are multiple glowing lights gathering to Kingdom Hearts. Now, some of us recall the scene at the end of KHx where, during the Keyblade War, we see hearts floating adrift as more and more wielders fall. Connecting those two points, I'd wager that those glowing lights are hearts gravitating toward Kingdom Hearts. Or, it could even be that it's Lux, as Lux is needed to summon Kingdom Hearts, according to Gula in Backcover. We, so far anyway, have no evidence of Lux being collected in CE Kingdom Hearts, and I certainly don't recall any more than seven beings present at the time of BBS. And then, of course, we see Luxu there, with ol' No Name and the box of MOM's dead mouse collection, or whatever. If, in fact, No Name is a one of a kind Keyblade, then how could Luxu have it at the same time as the current events of Kingdom Hearts if one, he's no longer alive, and two, if Master Xehanort has it?

 

 

I agree with you about basically everything, the only question I have is: why showing a scene from X in 0.2 when you have Back Cover in the same collection?

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

For the interview just look up the last one, it's not that hard. And yeah, it's a guess, heck all of his are guesses too until is written in stone.

Link, please.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

This was a really well written post with solid facts and evidences (except that google translate part, although I believe it is true, we'll actually need a proper translation so people who think Luxu's their master won't get confused or whatever).

 

 

 

 

I'm gonna need a source for this because it is never stated in any game and I'm not sure if it was said in an interview or famitsu article or whatever. So yeah, send me your sources if you want me to believe this.

 

 

 

*deep sigh* "it's probably his fav because he lived it" so your taking a wild guess ok. Their master knows about that story the same way Kairi's grandmother knows about it, or the same way he has No Name. Because It was passed through generations.

  

Link, please.

Omg, guys it was literally the last interview just look it up. But here is the link anyway though:

 

http://www.khinsider.com/news/Famitsu-showcases-Kingdom-Hearts-HD-2-8-Nomura-interview-released-8108

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

Omg, guys it was literally the last interview just look it up. But here is the link anyway though: http://www.khinsider.com/news/Famitsu-showcases-Kingdom-Hearts-HD-2-8-Nomura-interview-released-8108

Hey, you are the one who referenced it. If you weren't willing to link to it, you shouldn't have mentioned it.

Anyway, I believe I found the quote you referred to. While interesting, i do not find your conclusion to be supported enough to counter Svard's points.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Hey, you are the one who referenced it. If you weren't willing to link to it, you shouldn't have mentioned it.

Anyway, I believe I found the quote you referred to. While interesting, i do not find your conclusion to be supported enough to counter Svard's points.

Not really, but it's whatever.

 

Ok, process of elimination. Think about it, No one would know about the box other than him, it's literally the only well keep secret from X/Back Cover. Sora, Riku, and Kairi along with the others already have been given their missions in KH3 which don't involve the box. I'm pretty sure Yin Sid doesn't know anything about it either since I don't think he even knew about the Book of prophecies until this Maleficent mess and Maleficent is only after Book of prophecies. Probably Eraqus would have also known but he's dead now so... So the only person that would be left is Xehanort and it would also make sense for him to be looking for the box since it possibly contains the True X-blade, so it would make sense for him to be looking for that while everyone else is doing stuff in 3. That's my theory, but I think it checks out.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Kingdomhe

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

Not really, but it's whatever.

 

Ok, process of elimination. Think about it, No one would know about the box other than him, it's literally the only well keep secret from X/Back Cover. Sora, Riku, and Kairi along with the others already have been given their missions in KH3 which don't involve the box. I'm pretty sure Yin Sid doesn't know anything about it either since I don't think he even knew about the Book of prophecies until this Maleficent mess and Maleficent is only after Book of prophecies. Probably Eraqus would have also known but he's dead now so... So the only person that would be left is Xehanort and it would also make sense for him to be looking for the box since it possibly contains the True X-blade, so it would make sense for him to be looking for that while everyone else is doing stuff in 3. That's my theory, but I think it checks out.

See? When you took time to explain yourself, it became easier to pinpoint the point of contention. I don't dispute Xehanort is the most likely to be looking for the box. I'm calling into question the conclusion that Luxu has to be Xehanort and Eraqus's master. If that box is important enough, odds are reasonable Luxu would hand down the secret of its exisitance (though perhaps not it's contents) to his apprentice, and so on and so forth. Now, this is also just a theory, but it is one of several that matches the time gulf between the war and the time Xehanort was an apprentice that Svard laid out above.

[Elfdemon_ 695]

Thank you for doing your research on this and going very in depth into it. The Master of Masters' quote "You need to pass down that Keyblade to your apprentice, and then him to his, so my eye can see the future" really made me believe that there was at least one generation in-between Luxu and Xehanort, if not more, but it wasn't quite enough evidence to say for sure. If it turns out that Luxu is Xehanort and Eraqus' master, then Nomura's got some explaining to do lol

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

See? When you took time to explain yourself, it became easier to pinpoint the point of contention. I don't dispute Xehanort is the most likely to be looking for the box. I'm calling into question the conclusion that Luxu has to be Xehanort and Eraqus's master. If that box is important enough, odds are reasonable Luxu would hand down the secret of its exisitance (though perhaps not it's contents) to his apprentice, and so on and so forth. Now, this is also just a theory, but it is one of several that matches the time gulf between the war and the time Xehanort was an apprentice that Svard laid out above.

 

I just feel that the reason that Xehanort has started all of this was from encouragement by Luxu directly. If there are generations between them, then why hasn't anybody tried to do or has done anything close to what Xehanort has done before? Thier master clearly had some evil intent by giving him No Name and not Eraqus even though Xehanort did things that he wasn't supposed to do and since Luxu is the traitor he would fall under this category. But it's whatever, the only way we could settle this soon is if they ever show more of the beginning scene in a new KH3 trailer.

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

I just feel that the reason that Xehanort has started all of this was from encouragement by Luxu directly. If there are generations between them, then why hasn't anybody tried to do or has done anything close to what Xehanort has done before? Thier master clearly had some evil intent by giving him No Name and not Eraqus even though Xehanort did things that he wasn't supposed to do and since Luxu is the traitor he would fall under this category. But it's whatever, the only way we could settle this soon is if they ever show more of the beginning scene in a new KH3 trailer.

Well, we don't know if Xehanort is the first. He might just be the most successful. I'll admit, pure conjecture, but we just don't know.

Another point in favor of generations happening between the War and Xehanort's apprenticeship is a line said by Xehanort himself in the BBS flashback where Xehanort and Eraqus are talking about the X-Blade. Xehanort says "But darkness did cover the world once, in legend." Since the only time we know of that the world was covered in darkness was the aftermath of the Keyblad War. And I have a hard time believing that something could be considered a legend that's not at least a couple hundred years old. Plus, directly after the above quoted line, Xehanort says "We know so little about the Keyblade War." Now, Luxu could have just kept his mouth shut about the details of it, if he was their master. But, if I understood backcover right, most of the survivors from the Keyblade War were the Dandelions, who lived through the war. Without a generational gap, stories of what they saw would still be around. Heck, there would be reasonable odds for Xehanort's parents to be Dandelions themselves without a generation gap.

I'll admit, we don't have firm answers until KH3. But, based on data we do have now, a time gap seems to fit best. Now, upon additional consideration, I do not have a good defense against the idea that Luxu has been body jumping this whole time, and by that way becoming Xehanort and Eraqus's master. I think it unlikely, but it is more of a gut feeling rather than one backed by data.

 

(Here's the scene I was referencing. The lines should be about 18 seconds in:

Edited February 15, 2017 by rikunobodyxiii

[mag77 405]

I agree with everything you said here so much (infact, I was thinking about posting something similar earlier)!  Everyone seems to forget that the characters state multiple times that the Keyblade War is ancient, like you said meaning it took place hundreds if not not thousands of years ago, and that always kind of annoyed me.  Glad to know that I'm not the only one who remembers.  And I just can't see the Keyblade War taking place even one hundred years ago, since that's way too close to the present to be considered 'ancient' and 'legendary' (unless the definition of these words is completely different in the KH universe).

 

As for Luxu being Xehanort and Eraqus's master, the only way I can see that happening is if he is doing exactly what Xehanort is doing now and is possessing a new body every fifty years or so to stay alive.  Again, I'm just assuming that humans in the KH universe have the same life expectancy as we do.  But even if they can live to be hundreds or thousands of years old, then that would just mean that a thousand years is not ancient.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Well, we don't know if Xehanort is the first. He might just be the most successful. I'll admit, pure conjecture, but we just don't know.

Another point in favor of generations happening between the War and Xehanort's apprenticeship is a line said by Xehanort himself in the BBS flashback where Xehanort and Eraqus are talking about the X-Blade. Xehanort says "But darkness did cover the world once, in legend." Since the only time we know of that the world was covered in darkness was the aftermath of the Keyblad War. And I have a hard time believing that something could be considered a legend that's not at least a couple hundred years old. Plus, directly after the above quoted line, Xehanort says "We know so little about the Keyblade War." Now, Luxu could have just kept his mouth shut about the details of it, if he was their master. But, if I understood backcover right, most of the survivors from the Keyblade War were the Dandelions, who lived through the war. Without a generational gap, stories of what they saw would still be around. Heck, there would be reasonable odds for Xehanort's parents to be Dandelions themselves without a generation gap.

I'll admit, we don't have firm answers until KH3. But, based on data we do have now, a time gap seems to fit best. Now, upon additional consideration, I do not have a good defense against the idea that Luxu has been body jumping this whole time, and by that way becoming Xehanort and Eraqus's master. I think it unlikely, but it is more of a gut feeling rather than one backed by data.

(Here's the scene I was referencing. The lines should be about 18 seconds in:

The dandelions are still in the realm of sleep.

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

The dandelions are still in the realm of sleep.

Ah, I was unaware of that deduction. I'm having trouble finding a lot of sources on it, so any confirmation you can link to would be appreciated.

Still, even without that point, there is a lot of evidence to point to a time gap.

Edited February 16, 2017 by rikunobodyxiii

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Ah, I was unaware of that deduction. I'm having trouble finding a lot of sources on it, so any confirmation you can link to would be appreciated.

Still, even without that point, there is a lot of evidence to point to a time gap.

It's X's secret ending, I would link it but it's spoilers unless you don't care.

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

It's X's secret ending, I would link it but it's spoilers unless you don't care.

Okay. Naw, I'll check it out later. Thanks, though.

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

I didn't need to read the whole thing to be happy that someone else thought this as well.