Who will the 13 darkness's be?

[IAMME 158]

Some of them we already know.  But theres one thing that I find quite puzzling, and it has to do with the replica program.  Vexen started it with xion and the Riku replica.  But theres also the ability to use them as one of the 13 darknesses.  Vexen made multiple copies of himself in the manga.  So why didn't Xemnas use the replica program to replase some of the fallen org memebers?  Obviously they could practically make them the exact same way as before.

 

But now that Vexen is gone and Even is soon to be awakened, will Xehenort try and capture Even and force him to create replicas to fill in the gaps?  IDK, but it sounds like it could be a good plot.

[neil98 313]

Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Isa, Braig, Ansem SoD, Terranort, Master Eraqus, Vanitas, Xion, Lea, Repliku, Luxord's Somebody and either Luxu or the Master of Masters (whoever turns out to be the traitor).

[IAMME 158]

Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Isa, Braig, Ansem SoD, Terranort, Master Eraqus, Vanitas, Xion, Lea, Repliku, Luxord's Somebody and either Luxu or the Master of Masters (whoever turns out to be the traitor).

Lea, you gotta be joking

[KH4Real 749]

Xion/Data-Sora/Vanitas

 

Those are the likely possibilities. I'll go for Xion.

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

The thirteen are:

Master Xehanort

Young Xehanort

Xemnas

Ansem

Marluxia*

Xigbar

Terra-Xehanort**

Vanitas***

Saix

Four versions of Xehanort between his youth and elderly ages

 

*KH3 E3 trailer showing the nobodies makes me think he was a tool to help "separate the weeds from the wheat" in Re:CoM and now gets his reward.

**Never thought this would happen since Terra would be saved, but after seeing the final HD2.8 trailer, I think he might actually be a possibility (never thought these words would come out of my mouth either).

*** Be honest, we haven't seen the end of him have we? He won't go down that easily, don't you think?

Edited December 15, 2016 by KingdomHearts3

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

MX, Ansem SOD, Xemnas, Braig, Saix, Repliku, Marluxia, Apprentice Xehanort, Prime Xehanort (before BBS at his strongest form-in his 20s or 30s maybe?), Xion, Luxu or the MOM, Terra and Vanitas.

[KeybladeLordCheeseCurd 1,542]

Master Xehanort

Ansem SoD

Xemnas

Young Xehanort

Braig/Xigbar

Isa/Saïx

Terranort

Luxord

Vanitas

Marluxia

???

???

???

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Well, I think the Thirteen Darknesses will be:

• Master Xehanort
• Young Xehanort
• Ansem
• Xemnas
• Isa
• Braig
• Terranort
• Vanitas
• Repliku
• Middle-Aged Xehanort
• Luxord's Somebody
• Demyx's Somebody
• I don't know about the thirteenth, but it could be Marluxia! (It'd be awesome if he was, though, since he's my favorite Organization member! )

[neil98 313]

Lea, you gotta be joking

look up hmk'sthirteenth darkness theory. I thought about it before him, but he gave much more depth to the theory, so much that in fact i almost take it as a fact now.

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

WARNING: INCOMING NAG

 

Can someone please explain to me how everyone keeps ignoring an important scene from the end of Dream Drop Distance? The one where it is explicitly stated that the Seekers, including Young Xehanort who instigated the whole mess, went back to their own times to live out their destinies with no memories of time travel meaning that there is no way for any of them to return except for Master Xehanort, Braig, and Isa who already exist in the present?

[palizinhas 102]

The issue with the Replica program is that it needed Vexen, so because Axel killed him too soon, it was never finished. Xion was too erratic, and Xemnas outright says they could have controlled her better if Vexen hadn't died. It's possible the Xehanorts will try to use Even, sure, but he already has 12 Darknesses and the program isn't finished. It's likely a lot easier to corrupt one person than depend on an experimental Program.

 

As for who are the Darknesses, I would guess none of them will be particularly surprising. Vanitas likely is, same goes for Luxord's somebody. Not sure who else, really.

[Felixx 6,646]

WARNING: INCOMING NAG

 

Can someone please explain to me how everyone keeps ignoring an important scene from the end of Dream Drop Distance? The one where it is explicitly stated that the Seekers, including Young Xehanort who instigated the whole mess, went back to their own times to live out their destinies with no memories of time travel meaning that there is no way for any of them to return except for Master Xehanort, Braig, and Isa who already exist in the present?

Time travel has its flaws. You can't fully explain it, that's why it doesn't exist (at least imo.) But to answer your question: YX returned to his own time, meaning he will turn into another Ansem SoD and Xemnas, meaning another Ansem SoD will turn back in time and give his younger self the ability to time travel. This YX then will gather all 13 Darknesses and go to the present time with them, the KH3 time then. That's how I understood it.

 

And to answer the thread's question, I assume Vanitas and Luxord will be Darknesses too, mostly because of the chess pieces. Other than that no idea, really. Could be anyone, maybe more Somebodies of the old Org 13.

[TheKeyofRose 282]

Xehanort

Xehanort 2

Half-Xehanort

Blue Haired Xehanort

Evil Sora Xehanort

Nobody Xehanort

Heartless Xehanort
Something Xehanort

I dunno why but whatever Xehanort

We ran out of ideas Xehanort

Donald Duck Xehanort

Max Xehanort (Goofys son this is a reference to one of the VA's)
We honestly just had one slot left Xehanort.

 

 

Alright guys there's 13 where's my paycheck Square?

Edited December 15, 2016 by TheKeyofRose

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

Time travel has its flaws. You can't fully explain it, that's why it doesn't exist (at least imo.) But to answer your question: YX returned to his own time, meaning he will turn into another Ansem SoD and Xemnas, meaning another Ansem SoD will turn back in time and give his younger self the ability to time travel. This YX then will gather all 13 Darknesses and go to the present time with them, the KH3 time then. That's how I understood it.

Except none of them will remember the time travel. Once Young Xehanort goes back to his own time with his memories wiped, he'll grow up to be the wrinkly old fart we all know, possess Terra, split himself, Ansem goes back to send YX forward to collect himself and bring him/them to the end of Dream Drop Distance and then it all starts over. They can't come back in 3 because it was explicitly stated that they can't change anything with time travel. They all have to go back to their times so that they can either grow up or die in order for Oldfartinort to even exist in the present. In fact, the entirety of Xehanort's plan in DDD was completely pointless and stupid because it contradicts itself: why gather your other selves through an incredibly inconvenient method if you know it will amount to nothing anyway because you can't start and end a war in only five minutes and when all of your components fade away almost instantly? Nomura better come up with really good explanation for this.

Edited December 15, 2016 by KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio

[Felixx 6,646]

Except none of them will remember the time travel. Once Young Xehanort goes back to his own time with his memories wiped, he'll grow up to be the wrinkly old fart we all know, possess Terra, split himself, Ansem goes back to send YX forward to collect himself and bring him/them to the end of Dream Drop Distance and then it all starts over. They can't come back in 3 because it was explicitly stated that they can't change anything with time travel. They all have to go back to their times so that they can either grow up or die in order for Oldfartinort to even exist in the present. In fact, the entirety of Xehanort's plan in DDD was completely pointless and stupid because it contradicts itself: why gather your other selves through an incredibly inconvenient method if you know it will amount to nothing anyway because you can't start and end a war in only five minutes and when all of your components fade away almost instantly? Nomura better come up with really good explanation for this.

That part isn't clear yet. It could be that he just moves to the present time, which will be KH3 then and not DDD anymore. Either way it's time travel, it can't make sense really.

And we shouldn't dicuss this here cause it's kinda off topic

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Here's who we know so far:

 

• Master Xehanort
• Ansem SOD
• Xemnas
• Xigbar/Braig
• Isa/Saix
• Young Xehanort

Here's who I think six others are:

 

• Luxord's Somebody
• Vanitas/Vanitas Remnant (I added Vanitas Remnant, or his Lingering Spirit, because we see two chess pieces with his keychain)
• Terra-Xehanort or Apprentice Xehanort
• Demyx's Somebody (only because one of the chess pieces looks like his sitar, or more specifically, his "Sanctuary" sitar from 358/2 Days
• Gula (only because one of the chess pieces looks like his keychain)
• Riku Replica

I have made 12 cause I have no idea who the 13th would be.

Except none of them will remember the time travel. Once Young Xehanort goes back to his own time with his memories wiped, he'll grow up to be the wrinkly old fart we all know, possess Terra, split himself, Ansem goes back to send YX forward to collect himself and bring him/them to the end of Dream Drop Distance and then it all starts over. They can't come back in 3 because it was explicitly stated that they can't change anything with time travel. They all have to go back to their times so that they can either grow up or die in order for Oldfartinort to even exist in the present. In fact, the entirety of Xehanort's plan in DDD was completely pointless and stupid because it contradicts itself: why gather your other selves through an incredibly inconvenient method if you know it will amount to nothing anyway because you can't start and end a war in only five minutes and when all of your components fade away almost instantly? Nomura better come up with really good explanation for this.

They can always time travel again. Here's why:

 

Yes, while Young Xehanort returns to his time and forgets all about his time... uhm, time travelling, there are those that didn't come from the past; these being Master Xehanort, as we was referred to the "most future-self", Isa/Saix and Braig/Xigbar who were both recompleted, and whoever else didn't arrive to the events of DDD via time travel. One of them could time travel back and bring them again.

 

And as for when you stated they can't change events with time travel, that is true. But that doesn't mean they can't do anything at all. If that were the case, we wouldn't have seen the Seekers of Darkness in DDD. They can't change the past and they can't change the events of the future; but the future events (i.e. KH3) will (most likely) be the 13 seekers of darkness returning and battling the guardians of light.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Master Eraqus

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

They can always time travel again. Here's why:

 

Yes, while Young Xehanort returns to his time and forgets all about his time... uhm, time travelling, there are those that didn't come from the past; these being Master Xehanort, as we was referred to the "most future-self", Isa/Saix and Braig/Xigbar who were both recompleted, and whoever else didn't arrive to the events of DDD via time travel. One of them could time travel back and bring them again.

 

And as for when you stated they can't change events with time travel, that is true. But that doesn't mean they can't do anything at all. If that were the case, we wouldn't have seen the Seekers of Darkness in DDD. They can't change the past and they can't change the events of the future; but the future events (i.e. KH3) will (most likely) be the 13 seekers of darkness returning and battling the guardians of light.

Fair enough, except for one problem: Out of all the present day Seekers, Master Xehanort is the only one with a heart and will strong enough to not turn into a mindless Heartless when he splits himself which means that there will be two versions of Ansem and Xemnas running around during 3 which would bork things up even more because there's already an Ansem bopping around the timeline and I doubt the two of them will be able to share Riku's body. Plus, I don't think Ansem and Xemnas can even be two of the Darknesses because neither of them are complete beings.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

Fair enough, except for one problem: Out of all the present day Seekers, Master Xehanort is the only one with a heart and will strong enough to not turn into a mindless Heartless when he splits himself which means that there will be two versions of Ansem and Xemnas running around during 3 which would bork things up even more because there's already an Ansem bopping around the timeline and I doubt the two of them will be able to share Riku's body. Plus, I don't think Ansem and Xemnas can even be two of the Darknesses because neither of them are complete beings.

Well, to not be a mindless Heartless, i.e. to keep your sense of self, you must turn yourself into a Heartless willingly, as Sora and Xehanort have done and stated in the Secret Ansem Reports.

 

As for Ansem SOD and Xemnas not being complete beings; I don't think they have to be complete beings to be Seekers of Darkness. Xehanort stated that he will fill the Seekers with pure darkness and considering that Ansem SOD and Xemnas were seen as Seekers of Darkness in DDD, I don't think they have to be complete beings.

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

Well, to not be a mindless Heartless, i.e. to keep your sense of self, you must turn yourself into a Heartless willingly, as Sora and Xehanort have done and stated in the Secret Ansem Reports.

 

As for Ansem SOD and Xemnas not being complete beings; I don't think they have to be complete beings to be Seekers of Darkness. Xehanort stated that he will fill the Seekers with pure darkness and considering that Ansem SOD and Xemnas were seen as Seekers of Darkness in DDD, I don't think they have to be complete beings.

True but Sora still became a Shadow and was slowly losing his mind and would have gone full Heartless completely if not for being purified by Kairi while Ansem retained a humanoid body (both cloaked and while possessing Riku) and kept all his mental faculties even though they were slightly influenced by his Heartless instincts. As for why Ansem and Xemnas can't be Seekers, a Keyblade War kind of requires Keyblades and Ansem can't use one (or at least one of his own, the Keyblade of Peoples Hearts was kind of a different situation) because he's a Heartless while the jury is still out on whether Xemnas can or can't use one. Plus, as far as we're aware, the Seekers only have one Keyblade to go around (Master Xehanort's) and I don't think MX would be able to simultaneously assume direct control over all of them like he did with his younger self in DDD. Yes, Master Fartinort is already OP but that would be ridiculous even by his standards.

 

I realize that I'm being an annoying and pedantic little sh!t by bring this up constantly but I just want some internal consistency with this story. I know retcons abound in Kingdom Hearts but this would be the most blatant one ever.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

True but Sora still became a Shadow and was slowly losing his mind and would have gone full Heartless completely if not for being purified by Kairi while Ansem retained a humanoid body (both cloaked and while possessing Riku) and kept all his mental faculties even though they were slightly influenced by his Heartless instincts. As for why Ansem and Xemnas can't be Seekers, a Keyblade War kind of requires Keyblades and Ansem can't use one (or at least one of his own, the Keyblade of Peoples Hearts was kind of a different situation) because he's a Heartless while the jury is still out on whether Xemnas can or can't use one. Plus, as far as we're aware, the Seekers only have one Keyblade to go around (Master Xehanort's) and I don't think MX would be able to simultaneously assume direct control over all of them like he did with his younger self in DDD. Yes, Master Fartinort is already OP but that would be ridiculous even by his standards.

 

I realize that I'm being an annoying and pedantic little sh!t by bring this up constantly but I just want some internal consistency with this story. I know retcons abound in Kingdom Hearts but this would be the most blatant one ever.

Well, it never seemed to be the case where Sora was losing his mind, even though he was only a Heartless for a few minutes. The Secret Ansem Reports in KH2 imply that if you turn into a Heartless willingly, you are able to keep your sense of self. Axel and Larxene also bring this up in Chain of Memories:

 

Axel: "There was a time he became a Heartless. And if one becomes a Heartless-"

 

Larxene: "They lose their minds and their feelings... They're consumed by the darkness."

 

Axel: "Right. But not Sora. He held onto his feelings even as a Heartless. And there's only one other man who's been able to do just that."

 

As for the Seekers wielding Keyblades, I don't think it was stated nor implied that they have to wield Keyblades. As stated by Ventus-Vanitas, unlocking Kingdom Hearts with the X-Blade would begin another Keyblade War by gathering all Keyblade wielders from all the worlds. As for Xemnas, Nomura has stated:

 

Roxas, the “Sora + Ventus” Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast, Xemnas, the “Terra + Master Xehanort” Nobody, wasn’t able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

 

I’d rather that point remain a mystery. It’s possible that he intentionally wasn’t using one.

 

Considering that Xemnas is the Nobody of a Keyblade wielder, like Roxas, it would make sense for him to wield one.

 

Finally, don't worry; I'm not finding you annoying. I'm actually enjoying this discussion as I extremely enjoy discussing on KH topics such as this.

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

Well, it never seemed to be the case where Sora was losing his mind, even though he was only a Heartless for a few minutes. The Secret Ansem Reports in KH2 imply that if you turn into a Heartless willingly, you are able to keep your sense of self. Axel and Larxene also bring this up in Chain of Memories:

 

Axel: "There was a time he became a Heartless. And if one becomes a Heartless-"

 

Larxene: "They lose their minds and their feelings... They're consumed by the darkness."

 

Axel: "Right. But not Sora. He held onto his feelings even as a Heartless. And there's only one other man who's been able to do just that."

 

As for the Seekers wielding Keyblades, I don't think it was stated nor implied that they have to wield Keyblades. As stated by Ventus-Vanitas, unlocking Kingdom Hearts with the X-Blade would begin another Keyblade War by gathering all Keyblade wielders from all the worlds. As for Xemnas, Nomura has stated:

 

Roxas, the “Sora + Ventus” Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast, Xemnas, the “Terra + Master Xehanort” Nobody, wasn’t able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

 

I’d rather that point remain a mystery. It’s possible that he intentionally wasn’t using one.

 

Considering that Xemnas is the Nobody of a Keyblade wielder, like Roxas, it would make sense for him to wield one.

 

Finally, don't worry; I'm not finding you annoying. I'm actually enjoying this discussion as I extremely enjoy discussing on KH topics such as this.

Yes, Sora did retain himself as a Shadow but only barely as we saw him slowly sinking into the Darkness. Xehanort is an old and extremely powerful Keyblade Master who can do things with his Heart that are absolutely absurd. Sora got lucky because his Heart was just strong enough to not give out completely. Xemnas may have been able to use his Keyblade if he so chose during any point between the end of BBS and his defeat in KH2 but since that Keyblade was more than likely Xehanort's then he won't be able to use it because his original self has dibs. Unless of course Xehanort has stockpiled multiple Keyblades like Mickey has in which case it's fair game. As for why I don't think the rest of the members on the above lists won't be Seekers: the only way I can see Vanitas coming back is if he's ripped out of Sora's Heart, Repliku I can't see because he can't be one of the hooded Seekers because none of them were short teenagers (same applies to Vanitas) and also because he's already dead, and if Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene weren't good enough to be Seekers as Nobodies, why would they be good enough as Somebodies?

 

Edit: Another reason why Repliku can't be a Seeker: When Riku fought both Lexaeus and Zexion, they seemed genuinely surprised when Ansem took over when Riku was getting his ass kicked. Does this mean that the Castle Oblivion team didn't know that Ansem possessed Riku and still technically was? If so, how could they program the possession into Repliku and subsequently make him a Xehanort if they were unaware of the possession?

Edited December 16, 2016 by KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio

[IAMME 158]

True but Sora still became a Shadow and was slowly losing his mind and would have gone full Heartless completely if not for being purified by Kairi while Ansem retained a humanoid body (both cloaked and while possessing Riku) and kept all his mental faculties even though they were slightly influenced by his Heartless instincts. As for why Ansem and Xemnas can't be Seekers, a Keyblade War kind of requires Keyblades and Ansem can't use one (or at least one of his own, the Keyblade of Peoples Hearts was kind of a different situation) because he's a Heartless while the jury is still out on whether Xemnas can or can't use one. Plus, as far as we're aware, the Seekers only have one Keyblade to go around (Master Xehanort's) and I don't think MX would be able to simultaneously assume direct control over all of them like he did with his younger self in DDD. Yes, Master Fartinort is already OP but that would be ridiculous even by his standards.

 

I realize that I'm being an annoying and pedantic little sh!t by bring this up constantly but I just want some internal consistency with this story. I know retcons abound in Kingdom Hearts but this would be the most blatant one ever.

Xemnas I think has the ability to weild a keyblade because xehenort could. Remember Sora and Roxas?

[Connected 978]

I think just all the "Somebody's" of the Org 13 and instead of Roxas, Young Xehanort.

 

If Luxu and Master of Masters would be one of the 13 i think we would have seen them in 3D.

[KeybladeMasterDeadpoolio 55]

Xemnas I think has the ability to weild a keyblade because xehenort could. Remember Sora and Roxas?

That's what I said but if Master Xehanort and Xemnas are going to be running around at the same time, how can Xemnas use their Keyblade if Master Xehanort has called dibs by virtue of being the big boss? Which is why I suggested that they're collecting Keyblades for all of the Seekers.

 

I think just all the "Somebody's" of the Org 13 and instead of Roxas, Young Xehanort.

 

If Luxu and Master of Masters would be one of the 13 i think we would have seen them in 3D.

That seems unlikely to me because out of those twelve Somebodies, three of them seem genuinely remorseful for what they did, six of them are a complete mystery so it could go either way, and three are definitely confirmed to be Seekers.

 

As for Luxu and the Master, that would be a stretch even for this series. They seem like the types to allow themselves to be wiped away by the apocalypse.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

That's what I said but if Master Xehanort and Xemnas are going to be running around at the same time, how can Xemnas use their Keyblade if Master Xehanort has called dibs by virtue of being the big boss? Which is why I suggested that they're collecting Keyblades for all of the Seekers.

It would really be more along the lines of, "Yeah, they're the same Keyblade, but they're from two different time periods." We have (at least) two Xehanorts who are technically the same being from different times, couldn't we say the same for the Keyblade/s?