The Foretellers' Keyblades

[animemylove 439]

So for a while I have been wondering about the foretellers and what their involvement in KH3 might be and found something interesting about their keyblades. Each one seems to resemble one of our keyblade wielders' like:

 

anguis>Aqua's, vulpes>Kairi's, ursus>Terra's, and unicornus>maybe Lea or roxas/ventus .. no clue about Leapordus. I doubt sora, mickey and riku will trade their base keyblades.

 

So I wonder who else thinks they may be passed down to our heroes or what your opinions are .. I also feel somehow the master of young Eraqus and Xehanort or whatever foreteller passed down Xehanorts keyblade may come back as the new antagonist for the next arc. there's really noone else that can beat Xehanort's level of badassery.

[Guest]

Gelandporn: It’s a fairly good bet that the “Lost Masters” Xehanort speaks of at the end of the 2.5 ReMix trailer are the Foretellers. And if that’s the case, then we could in turn guess that the “previous Keyblade Wielders” that Riku and Mickey are supposed to be searching for (based on the KH3 press release) are also the Foretellers.

This begs the question—how the hell are the Foretellers still around?

Before I give my answer to that question, let me direct your attention to the possible connection between Xehanort and the Foretellers (as blatant as it is):



Oh look, his keyblade matches the motif of the five Foretellers. All of them have an “eye of darkness” for their keychain. Additionally, the hilt is designed to look like an animal. In Xehanorts’s case, it appears to be a goat, or perhaps even Baphomet.

And that’s not all:


Ok, so my math might be a little fuzzy here, but I believe 5=/=6. Meaning we have one apprentice unaccounted for. Sooooo… who is this sixth apprentice? XEHANORT

Wait! I forgot about the thousand or so years that separate the era of the Foretellers and Xehanort.
Right, well, we do have a few time dilation tools at our disposal in the KH universe. Some time travel shenanigans come to mind, but we’ll get to that later. Placing bodies in a state of suspension (eg in the RoD or by losing one’s heart) could also be the source.
But for the hell of it, I’m going to stray off the beaten path and say instead that Xehanort was reincarnated. You heard it here first, folks:

Xehanort: Reborn. 

While that’s out of left field, it does fit the cyclical nature of the Keyblade War and Master Xehanort’s obsession with destiny. Note here that I’m not saying per se that Xehanort has even more lost memories. Rather, it’s more of a matter of his memory slate being cleansed in the natural process of rebirth. Think of the time traveling Young Xehanort whose future memories are etched into his heart. Xehanort will always have a connection to the Keyblade War—one which spurred his initial fascination and later drove him to obsession.

So, reincarnation. A cycle. There are constants in the KH universe which allow for history to repeat itself. Numbers have meaning. Seven lights. Thirteen darknesses. And… Six apprentices? Does anyone else find this story a little familiar? Six apprentices, one of unknown identity, and a missing master? Perhaps Xehanort was fated to play the role of the betrayer, be it of Ansem the Wise or the master of the Foretellers.

More broadly, maybe Xehanort is the catalyst by which the universe continues in a cycle of death and rebirth. The Keyblade War marks an end, shepherded in by a Xehanort, but this allows for light to begin anew. A light that is fostered through seven pure individuals.

The exact mechanism by which Xehanort could be reborn every thousand or so years is uncertain but not too hard to imagine. All hearts are created out of Kingdom Hearts, and return there in the end. Could the same heart continually be spit out? Probably. It’s a little process I like to call Birth by Sleep.

Sleep in the KH series is death. Ergo Birth by Sleep = Birth by Death = Rebirth. “A new beginning.” Xehanort rose from his own ashes. 

Convinced yet? Good, neither was I, initially. I mean, there –supposedly—isn’t any precedence in the series for literal reincarnation. Maybe some metaphorical rebirths. So let’s skip to the good stuff. The real meat and potatoes.

There are others who have been reborn. The Five Foretellers: Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus.
We know that these were pseudonyms that their master bestowed upon them so you know what? I’m going to call them by their current names—[spoilers]Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Terra and Kairi, respectively.[/spoilers]



Yeah that’s right! The biggest giveaway is, in typical Nomura fashion… their fashion. Color-coordination between clothes and hair: Blue, Yellow, Grey, Brown, Pink. Not to mention, the body types match perfectly. Even the palette of some of their keyblades bear a resemblance (Terra and Ursus having the most obvious similarity).

But what does it all mean???
From here on, I’m going to make some inferences. Let’s start with the fate of the Foretellers.

Well, they were probably lost to the Keyblade War. But what side did they join? Remember, Xehanort tells of the different factions:


We have reason to believe that a rift grew between the Foretellers based on what Chirithy said. “Also, as you know, even though the five Foretellers share the same goal, they by no means share the same will. So, you mustn't lose sight of it yourself.”
Odds are, I’d say, that each had their own approach to preventing a darkness-filled future, and it’s those irreconcilable differences that actually led to it. A self-fulfilling prophecy. 

So maybe, rather than them all joining a side… they WERE the sides. Their infighting snowballed into the full-blown Keyblade War. While it might not match up perfectly, we could definitely assign some of them to a group based on their known personality traits:

1. Aqua/Anguis: Defenders of Light. This is a pretty obvious one. Aqua, like Master Eraqus, believes in the absolute righteousness of the light. Open and shut case.

2. Ventus/Leopardos: Servants of Darkness. At first glance, this one appears to be contradictory, but when you stop to think about it, it does make sense. We’re used to meek ol’ Ven being such a light-hearted (literally) individual. But what about before the split from his dark side? We know so little about that Ven. With Xehanort having considered the possibility of using Ven as his vessel, I’m sure Ven had a great capacity for darkness (that he refused to use), hence why Vanitas was so strong. And remember, darkness does not necessarily equate to being evil… Perhaps Leopardos, tasked with upholding a light which created so much hatred between the other Foretellers, realized that maybe it was the darkness in need of saving—against the “Tyranny of Light,” which Xehanort as the 6th apprentice would convince him of. Hence why Ven continued to follow Xehanort even in his next life.

3. Riku/Unicornis: Reconcilers of Dawn (or whatever you want to call them). This is another obvious one. Riku, the road to dawn… yeah.

4. Terra/Ursus: Seekers of Power. Another one which might not be readily apparent. Your first instinct might be to brand Terra as a Servant of Darkness. While Terra was by no means selfish, I’d say above all he was about power. Seeking the strength to protect what matters is what led him down his path. Eraqus flat out calls him out on his “obsession with power.”

5. Kairi/Vulpeus: Conscientious Objectors. Notice how there is no fifth faction that Xehanort mentions. Consider this one more of a non-faction. She represented all of those who, regardless of ideology, thought that waging a Keyblade War was senseless. It fits Kairi pretty damn well too. This is her purity shining through, and perhaps maybe even how she came to be a Princess of Heart.

So where does Xehanort fall in all of this? One would think he too would be a Servant of Darkness. And maybe that’s the case, but I can imagine that as the Judas of the group he’s above all else concerned with ensuring that the Keyblade War will be waged. He doesn’t fall on any one side so much as he is the instigator of the war through whatever means possible, whispering into each member’s ear suggestions and temptations. 

As for what this says about the future, it can’t be a coincidence that most of the Foretellers are now going to become Guardians of Light. So maybe the original Guardians of Light were Riku, Kairi, Terra, Aqua, Ven, Xehanort... and Mickey. As a quick aside for Mickey, I think reincarnation definitely works, as odd as it sounds. Mickey has had countless iterations over the years, and this provides an in-universe explanation for it without having to weave them all into a single lifetime. 

The band’s getting back together and they’re at least one member short--Xehanort. I mean, let’s be real here. They’re going to find Aqua. Ven’s heart will be restored. And would it be any surprise that Terra defects from the Seekers of Darkness? Of course not. 
So basically, that just leaves Sora. I’ll maintain that this is not a fated role for him. I’m sticking with the “normal boy” narrative. Sora came to be a Guardian of Light by accident and through his own power. There was no past Sora. But still, he does fit the bill quite nicely, acting basically as an anti-Xehanort. He’s all about that group cohesion, forgiving past sins, unity, love and all that jazz.

Does that leave the old Foreteller group relegated to the pages of history? Nope. Remember, Riku and Mickey are looking for them. Kinda weird that they’re searching for past versions of characters, but what would Kingdom Hearts be without even more character doubles.
This is where time travel comes into play. If Xehanort can time travel to different periods of his life, could that also extend to the Xehanort of yore? If so, why not pay the Keyblade War a visit and get a firsthand experience? After all, if Young Xehanort can time travel to, say, Xemnas (who is for all intents and purposes a “reborn” version of himself), I’m sure we can extend that law to literal past lives.

And what would Xehanort find waiting for him? Well... “Another” Xehanort, hence the meaning of that anagram. This Xehanort would likely fill the role of our requisite “new form” of Xehanort that we get in all of the major titles--Ansem in KH1, Xemnas in KH2, MX in BbS, YX in DDD. 

However, I doubt this Xehanort was actually called Xehanort. Remember that the Foretellers’ master gave them new names. Going back to the whole animal theme, would that mean Xehanort is... Goatius? Well, doubtful. This Xehanort was the only one not to receive a tome of prophecy. I imagine this would be because their master found him either unworthy of one or suspect in some manner. Without a tome, perhaps he never received a proper title either. So let’s call him “No Heart.”

There’s one motif on the Foretellers’ keyblades which Xehanort’s lacks--a heart. No heart.

Now I wouldn’t go so far as to say No Heart was literally heartless. But I’d say he may have been instrumental in creating the Heartless.
Nomura said in the BbS Ultimania that the Heartless have been around for “a long time.” He never said forever. And then if we’re to examine Kairi’s grandmother’s story:


We can see a likely origin for the Heartless. Darkness has likely been around for as long as light has, but here we see that it was “born.” Given life. So with all of this bedlam that No Heart accomplished, I imagine Xehanort would learn from this. And above all, the most important thing he takes away from what he witnesses is that, in order to succeed in the Keyblade War, he has to keep the Guardians of Light in disarray. 
Sora is going to be his greatest obstacle there because there was no past Sora to stop all of the infighting. Xehanort may bring the Foretellers to the present to quite literally have history repeat itself. To take them at a time when they were at their lowest so they can ensure the destruction of the light in the present.

There’s a couple ways I can see him going about this. One would be to directly use the Foretellers’ powers. That is, to bring them into the Nort crew. I’ve seen this suggested a couple times before and it does seem to round out the roster, considering there are at least five unknowns:

1. MX
2. Xemnas
3. Ansem
4. Xigbar
5. Saix
6. YX
7. Terranort/Luxord
8. Vanitas
9. Anguis
10. Leopardos
11. Unicornis
12. Ursus
13. Vulpeus

The major problem here is how exactly MX could Nortify them (especially Vulpeus if my factions are correct). That and Terranort/Ursus are basically repeats--though with Terra likely defecting, that would leave a spot open for someone, be it Eraqus, No Heart, or whoever.
Another possibility is that Xehanort brings them through the power of persuasion--that “the future needs them” or some such nonsense. They won’t necessarily side with Xehanort, but their clashes will impede the current Guardians regardless.

So yeah. That’s about it for now. There’s a lot more I can say on the subject. Might update later.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Gelandporn: It’s a fairly good bet that the “Lost Masters” Xehanort speaks of at the end of the 2.5 ReMix trailer are the Foretellers. And if that’s the case, then we could in turn guess that the “previous Keyblade Wielders” that Riku and Mickey are supposed to be searching for (based on the KH3 press release) are also the Foretellers.

 

This begs the question—how the hell are the Foretellers still around?

 

Before I give my answer to that question, let me direct your attention to the possible connection between Xehanort and the Foretellers (as blatant as it is):

 

 

Oh look, his keyblade matches the motif of the five Foretellers. All of them have an “eye of darkness” for their keychain. Additionally, the hilt is designed to look like an animal. In Xehanorts’s case, it appears to be a goat, or perhaps even Baphomet.

 

And that’s not all:

 

 

Ok, so my math might be a little fuzzy here, but I believe 5=/=6. Meaning we have one apprentice unaccounted for. Sooooo… who is this sixth apprentice? XEHANORT

 

Wait! I forgot about the thousand or so years that separate the era of the Foretellers and Xehanort.

Right, well, we do have a few time dilation tools at our disposal in the KH universe. Some time travel shenanigans come to mind, but we’ll get to that later. Placing bodies in a state of suspension (eg in the RoD or by losing one’s heart) could also be the source.

But for the hell of it, I’m going to stray off the beaten path and say instead that Xehanort was reincarnated. You heard it here first, folks:

 

Xehanort: Reborn. 

 

While that’s out of left field, it does fit the cyclical nature of the Keyblade War and Master Xehanort’s obsession with destiny. Note here that I’m not saying per se that Xehanort has even more lost memories. Rather, it’s more of a matter of his memory slate being cleansed in the natural process of rebirth. Think of the time traveling Young Xehanort whose future memories are etched into his heart. Xehanort will always have a connection to the Keyblade War—one which spurred his initial fascination and later drove him to obsession.

 

So, reincarnation. A cycle. There are constants in the KH universe which allow for history to repeat itself. Numbers have meaning. Seven lights. Thirteen darknesses. And… Six apprentices? Does anyone else find this story a little familiar? Six apprentices, one of unknown identity, and a missing master? Perhaps Xehanort was fated to play the role of the betrayer, be it of Ansem the Wise or the master of the Foretellers.

 

More broadly, maybe Xehanort is the catalyst by which the universe continues in a cycle of death and rebirth. The Keyblade War marks an end, shepherded in by a Xehanort, but this allows for light to begin anew. A light that is fostered through seven pure individuals.

 

The exact mechanism by which Xehanort could be reborn every thousand or so years is uncertain but not too hard to imagine. All hearts are created out of Kingdom Hearts, and return there in the end. Could the same heart continually be spit out? Probably. It’s a little process I like to call Birth by Sleep.

 

Sleep in the KH series is death. Ergo Birth by Sleep = Birth by Death = Rebirth. “A new beginning.” Xehanort rose from his own ashes. 

 

Convinced yet? Good, neither was I, initially. I mean, there –supposedly—isn’t any precedence in the series for literal reincarnation. Maybe some metaphorical rebirths. So let’s skip to the good stuff. The real meat and potatoes.

 

There are others who have been reborn. The Five Foretellers: Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus.

We know that these were pseudonyms that their master bestowed upon them so you know what? I’m going to call them by their current names—[spoilers]Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Terra and Kairi, respectively.[/spoilers]

 

 

Yeah that’s right! The biggest giveaway is, in typical Nomura fashion… their fashion. Color-coordination between clothes and hair: Blue, Yellow, Grey, Brown, Pink. Not to mention, the body types match perfectly. Even the palette of some of their keyblades bear a resemblance (Terra and Ursus having the most obvious similarity).

 

But what does it all mean???

From here on, I’m going to make some inferences. Let’s start with the fate of the Foretellers.

 

Well, they were probably lost to the Keyblade War. But what side did they join? Remember, Xehanort tells of the different factions:

 

 

We have reason to believe that a rift grew between the Foretellers based on what Chirithy said. “Also, as you know, even though the five Foretellers share the same goal, they by no means share the same will. So, you mustn't lose sight of it yourself.”

Odds are, I’d say, that each had their own approach to preventing a darkness-filled future, and it’s those irreconcilable differences that actually led to it. A self-fulfilling prophecy. 

 

So maybe, rather than them all joining a side… they WERE the sides. Their infighting snowballed into the full-blown Keyblade War. While it might not match up perfectly, we could definitely assign some of them to a group based on their known personality traits:

1. Aqua/Anguis: Defenders of Light. This is a pretty obvious one. Aqua, like Master Eraqus, believes in the absolute righteousness of the light. Open and shut case.

 

2. Ventus/Leopardos: Servants of Darkness. At first glance, this one appears to be contradictory, but when you stop to think about it, it does make sense. We’re used to meek ol’ Ven being such a light-hearted (literally) individual. But what about before the split from his dark side? We know so little about that Ven. With Xehanort having considered the possibility of using Ven as his vessel, I’m sure Ven had a great capacity for darkness (that he refused to use), hence why Vanitas was so strong. And remember, darkness does not necessarily equate to being evil… Perhaps Leopardos, tasked with upholding a light which created so much hatred between the other Foretellers, realized that maybe it was the darkness in need of saving—against the “Tyranny of Light,” which Xehanort as the 6th apprentice would convince him of. Hence why Ven continued to follow Xehanort even in his next life.

 

3. Riku/Unicornis: Reconcilers of Dawn (or whatever you want to call them). This is another obvious one. Riku, the road to dawn… yeah.

 

4. Terra/Ursus: Seekers of Power. Another one which might not be readily apparent. Your first instinct might be to brand Terra as a Servant of Darkness. While Terra was by no means selfish, I’d say above all he was about power. Seeking the strength to protect what matters is what led him down his path. Eraqus flat out calls him out on his “obsession with power.”

 

5. Kairi/Vulpeus: Conscientious Objectors. Notice how there is no fifth faction that Xehanort mentions. Consider this one more of a non-faction. She represented all of those who, regardless of ideology, thought that waging a Keyblade War was senseless. It fits Kairi pretty damn well too. This is her purity shining through, and perhaps maybe even how she came to be a Princess of Heart.

So where does Xehanort fall in all of this? One would think he too would be a Servant of Darkness. And maybe that’s the case, but I can imagine that as the Judas of the group he’s above all else concerned with ensuring that the Keyblade War will be waged. He doesn’t fall on any one side so much as he is the instigator of the war through whatever means possible, whispering into each member’s ear suggestions and temptations. 

 

As for what this says about the future, it can’t be a coincidence that most of the Foretellers are now going to become Guardians of Light. So maybe the original Guardians of Light were Riku, Kairi, Terra, Aqua, Ven, Xehanort... and Mickey. As a quick aside for Mickey, I think reincarnation definitely works, as odd as it sounds. Mickey has had countless iterations over the years, and this provides an in-universe explanation for it without having to weave them all into a single lifetime. 

 

The band’s getting back together and they’re at least one member short--Xehanort. I mean, let’s be real here. They’re going to find Aqua. Ven’s heart will be restored. And would it be any surprise that Terra defects from the Seekers of Darkness? Of course not. 

So basically, that just leaves Sora. I’ll maintain that this is not a fated role for him. I’m sticking with the “normal boy” narrative. Sora came to be a Guardian of Light by accident and through his own power. There was no past Sora. But still, he does fit the bill quite nicely, acting basically as an anti-Xehanort. He’s all about that group cohesion, forgiving past sins, unity, love and all that jazz.

 

Does that leave the old Foreteller group relegated to the pages of history? Nope. Remember, Riku and Mickey are looking for them. Kinda weird that they’re searching for past versions of characters, but what would Kingdom Hearts be without even more character doubles.

This is where time travel comes into play. If Xehanort can time travel to different periods of his life, could that also extend to the Xehanort of yore? If so, why not pay the Keyblade War a visit and get a firsthand experience? After all, if Young Xehanort can time travel to, say, Xemnas (who is for all intents and purposes a “reborn” version of himself), I’m sure we can extend that law to literal past lives.

 

And what would Xehanort find waiting for him? Well... “Another” Xehanort, hence the meaning of that anagram. This Xehanort would likely fill the role of our requisite “new form” of Xehanort that we get in all of the major titles--Ansem in KH1, Xemnas in KH2, MX in BbS, YX in DDD. 

 

However, I doubt this Xehanort was actually called Xehanort. Remember that the Foretellers’ master gave them new names. Going back to the whole animal theme, would that mean Xehanort is... Goatius? Well, doubtful. This Xehanort was the only one not to receive a tome of prophecy. I imagine this would be because their master found him either unworthy of one or suspect in some manner. Without a tome, perhaps he never received a proper title either. So let’s call him “No Heart.”

 

There’s one motif on the Foretellers’ keyblades which Xehanort’s lacks--a heart. No heart.

 

Now I wouldn’t go so far as to say No Heart was literally heartless. But I’d say he may have been instrumental in creating the Heartless.

Nomura said in the BbS Ultimania that the Heartless have been around for “a long time.” He never said forever. And then if we’re to examine Kairi’s grandmother’s story:

 

 

We can see a likely origin for the Heartless. Darkness has likely been around for as long as light has, but here we see that it was “born.” Given life. So with all of this bedlam that No Heart accomplished, I imagine Xehanort would learn from this. And above all, the most important thing he takes away from what he witnesses is that, in order to succeed in the Keyblade War, he has to keep the Guardians of Light in disarray. 

Sora is going to be his greatest obstacle there because there was no past Sora to stop all of the infighting. Xehanort may bring the Foretellers to the present to quite literally have history repeat itself. To take them at a time when they were at their lowest so they can ensure the destruction of the light in the present.

 

There’s a couple ways I can see him going about this. One would be to directly use the Foretellers’ powers. That is, to bring them into the Nort crew. I’ve seen this suggested a couple times before and it does seem to round out the roster, considering there are at least five unknowns:

 

1. MX

2. Xemnas

3. Ansem

4. Xigbar

5. Saix

6. YX

7. Terranort/Luxord

8. Vanitas

9. Anguis

10. Leopardos

11. Unicornis

12. Ursus

13. Vulpeus

 

The major problem here is how exactly MX could Nortify them (especially Vulpeus if my factions are correct). That and Terranort/Ursus are basically repeats--though with Terra likely defecting, that would leave a spot open for someone, be it Eraqus, No Heart, or whoever.

Another possibility is that Xehanort brings them through the power of persuasion--that “the future needs them” or some such nonsense. They won’t necessarily side with Xehanort, but their clashes will impede the current Guardians regardless.

 

So yeah. That’s about it for now. There’s a lot more I can say on the subject. Might update later.

I think I saw this theory on KHInformer, am I not correct?

 

It's an interesting theory, one that I have taken some stock in, as far as choosing who is to be my faction. If Unicornis really is going the way of the Dawn like you say, then hello Dawnsville for me! X3

 

And there might be something to it. Maybe not everything will be right, but it does feel like it's looking in the right direction.

[Forever 3,550]

This theory has already been created both here, and on KHinsider. It's a great observation though!

[Guest]

I think I saw this theory on KHInformer, am I not correct?

 

It's an interesting theory, one that I have taken some stock in, as far as choosing who is to be my faction. If Unicornis really is going the way of the Dawn like you say, then hello Dawnsville for me! X3

 

And there might be something to it. Maybe not everything will be right, but it does feel like it's looking in the right direction.

 

Yeah, it's from KHInsider, that's why I bolded the name.

 

I believe that reincarnation makes perfect sense. For starters, Xehanort wants to repeat the Keyblade War again despite knowing that the results of a previous Keyblade War ended up with dire consequences. The whole "there's a traitor in the Foreteller group" mirrors Braig's betrayal in Ansem The Wise's scientist council.

 

I suppose Kingdom Hearts 3 is leading up to "history repeating itself" scenario.

[KeybladeLordCheeseCurd 1,542]

Yeah, it's from KHInsider, that's why I bolded the name. I believe that reincarnation makes perfect sense. For starters, Xehanort wants to repeat the Keyblade War again despite knowing that the results of a previous Keyblade War ended up with dire consequences. The whole "there's a traitor in the Foreteller group" mirrors Braig's betrayal in Ansem The Wise's scientist council. I suppose Kingdom Hearts 3 is leading up to "history repeating itself" scenario.

I always figured the Foretellers to be ancestors. Ever think of that?

[Guest]

I always figured the Foretellers to be ancestors. Ever think of that?

 

Of course I thought about that. But if they were to be ancestors reincarnated into the main heroes then that would be plausible too. 

[gosoxtim 52]

Yeah, it's from KHInsider, that's why I bolded the name.

 

I believe that reincarnation makes perfect sense. For starters, Xehanort wants to repeat the Keyblade War again despite knowing that the results of a previous Keyblade War ended up with dire consequences. The whole "there's a traitor in the Foreteller group" mirrors Braig's betrayal in Ansem The Wise's scientist council.

 

I suppose Kingdom Hearts 3 is leading up to "history repeating itself" scenario.

history reapting itself doesn't make sense since the main goal of xhehanort is to have thirteen darkness and seven light clash to make x-blade

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

history reapting itself doesn't make sense since the main goal of xhehanort is to have thirteen darkness and seven light clash to make x-blade

I agree. Plus, we are searching for previous keybearers. If five of the seven are just reborn Foretellers, who could be the previous keybearers, why the heck bother finding them anyway? It makes no sense. Besides, the five foretellers will have some role in KH3. What that is has yet to be seen. Ven, Terra, Aqua, Riku and Kairi do not have keyblades passed down from them anyway. If that were true, then the scenes with Terra giving Riku the power and Aqua putting a magic charm on Kairi's necklace would have to be taken out since they are moot, pointless, and don't make sense.

[ssceles 134]

The reincarnation theory is definitely a popular one! I don't really know about that, but, I am particularly drawn to the last little bit the OP said about maybe the sixth 'Foreteller' whose blade Xehanort currently wields returning as the final over-arching villain post-KH3. I've felt that way for a long time and I'm excited over it...! But I still can't get over all the odd vibes Unicornis gives off with his outfit not matching his blade like the others. I can't wait to see this all through~

[Guest]

history reapting itself doesn't make sense since the main goal of xhehanort is to have thirteen darkness and seven light clash to make x-blade

 

Or maybe, you just outright hate this theory.

 

 

I agree. Plus, we are searching for previous keybearers. If five of the seven are just reborn Foretellers, who could be the previous keybearers, why the heck bother finding them anyway? It makes no sense. Besides, the five foretellers will have some role in KH3. What that is has yet to be seen. Ven, Terra, Aqua, Riku and Kairi do not have keyblades passed down from them anyway. If that were true, then the scenes with Terra giving Riku the power and Aqua putting a magic charm on Kairi's necklace would have to be taken out since they are moot, pointless, and don't make sense.

 

You do know what reincarnation means right? because in the theory, if Xehanort was the reincarnated sixth Foreteller then he would be just as clueless of his past origins as the rest of the heroes. Reincarnation is a complete restart to your life. As far as those Keyblade inheritance scenes go, because all the heroes have a restarted life, they would have to restart their means of gaining a Keyblade in the first place thus justifying the inheritances.

 

 

The reincarnation theory is definitely a popular one! I don't really know about that, but, I am particularly drawn to the last little bit the OP said about maybe the sixth 'Foreteller' whose blade Xehanort currently wields returning as the final over-arching villain post-KH3. I've felt that way for a long time and I'm excited over it...! But I still can't get over all the odd vibes Unicornis gives off with his outfit not matching his blade like the others. I can't wait to see this all through~

 

Same here. I don't believe that this is the complete truth, and I'd be more than satisfied if the Foretellers were their own beings that have no relation to the heroes, however, I think their body shapes and them being hooded is intentional for this very theory.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Guest

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Yeah, it's from KHInsider, that's why I bolded the name.

 

I believe that reincarnation makes perfect sense. For starters, Xehanort wants to repeat the Keyblade War again despite knowing that the results of a previous Keyblade War ended up with dire consequences. The whole "there's a traitor in the Foreteller group" mirrors Braig's betrayal in Ansem The Wise's scientist council.

 

I suppose Kingdom Hearts 3 is leading up to "history repeating itself" scenario.

Really the whole history repeats itself scenario has been going on since KH2, though it was mostly through parallels. This would be the first time it is literally history repeating itself however.

 

The reincarnation theory is definitely a popular one! I don't really know about that, but, I am particularly drawn to the last little bit the OP said about maybe the sixth 'Foreteller' whose blade Xehanort currently wields returning as the final over-arching villain post-KH3. I've felt that way for a long time and I'm excited over it...! But I still can't get over all the odd vibes Unicornis gives off with his outfit not matching his blade like the others. I can't wait to see this all through~

Eh, it kind of matches actually. The blues aren't as bright as his outfit, but they are still there, sort of a navyish color rather than black. And if Unicornis really is supposed to be the one who "reconciles both light and darkness" then it would make sense for his Keyblade to have a sort of light and dark kind of color scheme about it. Plus, it kind of reminds me of an inverse of Way to the Dawn where it is made predominantly out of whites with a few bits of navy and red, as opposed to Riku's which is made predominantly out of navys and reds with a few bits of white. Perhaps that inverse nature alludes to something about Unicornis and his difference from Riku. Whereas Riku found his path after being used by Darkness, perhaps Unicornis chooses his path after initially trying to fight on the side of protecting the light. One goes from Darkness to Dawn while another goes from Light to Dawn, or maybe Twilight in this case. Possibly. Or there isn't anything to it and I'm just trying too hard, lol.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Hero of Light XIV

[gosoxtim 52]

Or maybe, you just outright hate this theory.

really  i don't hate it doesn't make sense  right we don't have much information to based this off now all we got quote  form vulpes saying are we going turn on each other  and her caring for the children right now  plus we only one side of the story  right now that our we need her side of the story first in the backcover movie then we can talk about this theory

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Gelandporn: It’s a fairly good bet that the “Lost Masters” Xehanort speaks of at the end of the 2.5 ReMix trailer are the Foretellers. And if that’s the case, then we could in turn guess that the “previous Keyblade Wielders” that Riku and Mickey are supposed to be searching for (based on the KH3 press release) are also the Foretellers.[/size]This begs the question—how the hell are the Foretellers still around?[/size]Before I give my answer to that question, let me direct your attention to the possible connection between Xehanort and the Foretellers (as blatant as it is):[/size]Oh look, his keyblade matches the motif of the five Foretellers. All of them have an “eye of darkness” for their keychain. Additionally, the hilt is designed to look like an animal. In Xehanorts’s case, it appears to be a goat, or perhaps even [/size]Baphomet.[/size]And that’s not all:[/size]Ok, so my math might be a little fuzzy here, but I believe 5=/=6. Meaning we have one apprentice unaccounted for. Sooooo… who is this sixth apprentice? [/size]XEHANORTWait! I forgot about the thousand or so years that separate the era of the Foretellers and Xehanort.[/size]Right, well, we do have a few time dilation tools at our disposal in the KH universe. Some time travel shenanigans come to mind, but we’ll get to that later. Placing bodies in a state of suspension (eg in the RoD or by losing one’s heart) could also be the source.[/size]But for the hell of it, I’m going to stray off the beaten path and say instead that Xehanort was reincarnated. You heard it here first, folks:[/size]Xehanort: Reborn. While that’s out of left field, it does fit the cyclical nature of the Keyblade War and Master Xehanort’s obsession with destiny. Note here that I’m not saying per se that Xehanort has even more lost memories. Rather, it’s more of a matter of his memory slate being cleansed in the natural process of rebirth. Think of the time traveling Young Xehanort whose future memories are etched into his heart. Xehanort will always have a connection to the Keyblade War—one which spurred his initial fascination and later drove him to obsession.[/size]So, reincarnation. A cycle. There are constants in the KH universe which allow for history to repeat itself. Numbers have meaning. Seven lights. Thirteen darknesses. And… Six apprentices? Does anyone else find this story a little familiar? Six apprentices, one of unknown identity, and a missing master? Perhaps Xehanort was fated to play the role of the betrayer, be it of Ansem the Wise or the master of the Foretellers.[/size]More broadly, maybe Xehanort is the catalyst by which the universe continues in a cycle of death and rebirth. The Keyblade War marks an end, shepherded in by a Xehanort, but this allows for light to begin anew. A light that is fostered through seven pure individuals.[/size]The exact mechanism by which Xehanort could be reborn every thousand or so years is uncertain but not too hard to imagine. All hearts are created out of Kingdom Hearts, and return there in the end. Could the same heart continually be spit out? Probably. It’s a little process I like to call [/size]Birth by Sleep.[/size]Sleep in the KH series is death. Ergo Birth by Sleep = Birth by Death = Rebirth. “A new beginning.” [/size]Xehanort rose from his own ashes. [/size]Convinced yet? Good, neither was I, initially. I mean, there –supposedly—isn’t any precedence in the series for literal reincarnation. Maybe some metaphorical rebirths. So let’s skip to the good stuff. The real meat and potatoes.[/size]There are others who have been reborn. The Five Foretellers: Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus.[/size]We know that these were pseudonyms that their master bestowed upon them so you know what? I’m going to call them by their current names—[spoilers]Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Terra and Kairi, respectively.[/spoilers][/size]Yeah that’s right! The biggest giveaway is, in typical Nomura fashion… their fashion. Color-coordination between clothes and hair: Blue, Yellow, Grey, Brown, Pink. Not to mention, the body types match perfectly. Even the palette of some of their keyblades bear a resemblance (Terra and Ursus having the most obvious similarity).[/size]But what does it all mean???[/size]From here on, I’m going to make some inferences. Let’s start with the fate of the Foretellers.[/size]Well, they were probably lost to the Keyblade War. But what side did they join? Remember, Xehanort tells of the different factions:[/size]We have reason to believe that a rift grew between the Foretellers based on what Chirithy said. “Also, as you know, even though the five Foretellers share the same goal, [/size]they by no means share the same will. So, you mustn't lose sight of it yourself.”[/size]Odds are, I’d say, that each had their own approach to preventing a darkness-filled future, and it’s those irreconcilable differences that actually led to it. A self-fulfilling prophecy. [/size]So maybe, rather than them all joining a side… they WERE the sides. Their infighting snowballed into the full-blown Keyblade War. While it might not match up perfectly, we could definitely assign some of them to a group based on their known personality traits:[/size]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Aqua/Anguis: Defenders of Light. This is a pretty obvious one. Aqua, like Master Eraqus, believes in the absolute righteousness of the light. Open and shut case.

2. Ventus/Leopardos: Servants of Darkness. At first glance, this one appears to be contradictory, but when you stop to think about it, it does make sense. We’re used to meek ol’ Ven being such a light-hearted (literally) individual. But what about before the split from his dark side? We know so little about that Ven. With Xehanort having considered the possibility of using Ven as his vessel, I’m sure Ven had a great capacity for darkness (that he refused to use), hence why Vanitas was so strong. And remember, darkness does not necessarily equate to being evil… Perhaps Leopardos, tasked with upholding a light which created so much hatred between the other Foretellers, realized that maybe it was the darkness in need of saving—against the “Tyranny of Light,” which Xehanort as the 6th apprentice would convince him of. Hence why Ven continued to follow Xehanort even in his next life.

3. Riku/Unicornis: Reconcilers of Dawn (or whatever you want to call them). This is another obvious one. Riku, the road to dawn… yeah.

4. Terra/Ursus: Seekers of Power. Another one which might not be readily apparent. Your first instinct might be to brand Terra as a Servant of Darkness. While Terra was by no means selfish, I’d say above all he was about power. Seeking the strength to protect what matters is what led him down his path. Eraqus flat out calls him out on his “obsession with power.”

5. Kairi/Vulpeus: Conscientious Objectors. Notice how there is no fifth faction that Xehanort mentions. Consider this one more of a non-faction. She represented all of those who, regardless of ideology, thought that waging a Keyblade War was senseless. It fits Kairi pretty damn well too. This is her purity shining through, and perhaps maybe even how she came to be a Princess of Heart.

So where does Xehanort fall in all of this? One would think he too would be a Servant of Darkness. And maybe that’s the case, but I can imagine that as the Judas of the group he’s above all else concerned with ensuring that the Keyblade War will be waged. He doesn’t fall on any one side so much as he is the instigator of the war through whatever means possible, whispering into each member’s ear suggestions and temptations. [/size]As for what this says about the future, it can’t be a coincidence that most of the Foretellers are now going to become Guardians of Light. So maybe the original Guardians of Light were Riku, Kairi, Terra, Aqua, Ven, Xehanort... and Mickey. As a quick aside for Mickey, I think reincarnation definitely works, as odd as it sounds. Mickey has had countless iterations over the years, and this provides an in-universe explanation for it without having to weave them all into a single lifetime. [/size]The band’s getting back together and they’re at least one member short--Xehanort. I mean, let’s be real here. They’re going to find Aqua. Ven’s heart will be restored. And would it be any surprise that Terra defects from the Seekers of Darkness? Of course not. [/size]So basically, that just leaves Sora. I’ll maintain that this is not a fated role for him. I’m sticking with the “normal boy” narrative. Sora came to be a Guardian of Light by accident and through his own power. There was no past Sora. But still, he does fit the bill quite nicely, acting basically as an anti-Xehanort. He’s all about that group cohesion, forgiving past sins, unity, love and all that jazz.[/size]Does that leave the old Foreteller group relegated to the pages of history? Nope. Remember, Riku and Mickey are looking for them. Kinda weird that they’re searching for past versions of characters, but what would Kingdom Hearts be without even more character doubles.[/size]This is where time travel comes into play. If Xehanort can time travel to different periods of his life, could that also extend to the Xehanort of yore? If so, why not pay the Keyblade War a visit and get a firsthand experience? After all, if Young Xehanort can time travel to, say, Xemnas (who is for all intents and purposes a “reborn” version of himself), I’m sure we can extend that law to literal past lives.[/size]And what would Xehanort find waiting for him? Well... “[/size]Another” Xehanort, hence the meaning of that anagram. This Xehanort would likely fill the role of our requisite “new form” of Xehanort that we get in all of the major titles--Ansem in KH1, Xemnas in KH2, MX in BbS, YX in DDD. [/size]However, I doubt this Xehanort was actually called Xehanort. Remember that the Foretellers’ master gave them [/size]new names. Going back to the whole animal theme, would that mean Xehanort is... Goatius? Well, doubtful. This Xehanort was the only one not to receive a tome of prophecy. I imagine this would be because their master found him either unworthy of one or suspect in some manner. Without a tome, perhaps he never received a proper title either. So let’s call him “[/size]No Heart.”[/size]There’s one motif on the Foretellers’ keyblades which Xehanort’s lacks--a heart. No heart.[/size]Now I wouldn’t go so far as to say No Heart was literally heartless. But I’d say he may have been instrumental in creating the Heartless.[/size]Nomura said in the BbS Ultimania that the Heartless have been around for “a long time.” He never said forever. And then if we’re to examine Kairi’s grandmother’s story:[/size]We can see a likely origin for the Heartless. Darkness has likely been around for as long as light has, but here we see that it was “born.” Given life. So with all of this bedlam that No Heart accomplished, I imagine Xehanort would learn from this. And above all, the most important thing he takes away from what he witnesses is that, in order to succeed in the Keyblade War, he has to keep the Guardians of Light in disarray. [/size]Sora is going to be his greatest obstacle there because there was no past Sora to stop all of the infighting. Xehanort may bring the Foretellers to the present to quite literally have history repeat itself. To take them at a time when they were at their lowest so they can ensure the destruction of the light in the present.[/size]There’s a couple ways I can see him going about this. One would be to directly use the Foretellers’ powers. That is, to bring them into the Nort crew. I’ve seen this suggested a couple times before and it does seem to round out the roster, considering there are at least five unknowns:[/size]1. MX[/size]2. Xemnas[/size]3. Ansem[/size]4. Xigbar[/size]5. Saix[/size]6. YX[/size]7. Terranort/Luxord[/size]8. Vanitas[/size]9. Anguis[/size]10. Leopardos[/size]11. Unicornis[/size]12. Ursus[/size]13. Vulpeus[/size]The major problem here is how exactly MX could Nortify them (especially Vulpeus if my factions are correct). That and Terranort/Ursus are basically repeats--though with Terra likely defecting, that would leave a spot open for someone, be it Eraqus, No Heart, or whoever.[/size]Another possibility is that Xehanort brings them through the power of persuasion--that “the future needs them” or some such nonsense. They won’t necessarily side with Xehanort, but their clashes will impede the current Guardians regardless.[/size]So yeah. That’s about it for now. There’s a lot more I can say on the subject. Might update later.[/size]

I feel the reincarnation angle is fairly obvious.

1. All hearts are born from Kingdom Hearts.

2. All hearts return to Kingdom Hearts upon death. (Proper, natural death, not separation into Heartless and Nobodies)

3. Kingdom Hearts is a repository of vast knowledge and power.

 

Wouldn't take much for Nomura to say "When a heart returns to Kingdom Hearts it's memories are wiped clean. These memories are then added to the collectuve knowledge within."

 

But Kairi presents an issue. As a Princess of Heart, her heart did not exist prior to the Keyblade War, as their hearts are the fragments from the light half of the χ-Blade so she couldn't have possibly been Vulpeus/Ava in a past life because she doesn't have a past life.

 

As for Sora, I think he was reborn but in the pre-Keyblade War Era he was just one of the many, many regular people who didn't have a Keyblade.

 

I also think that the "past Keyblade weilders" Mickey and Riku are looking for are his three missing friends. He's been looking for them for 11 years and now that he knows where they all are he's going to want to save them and he's going to want Riku's help, even though Sora is supposedly the only one who can save them.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Guest]

Really the whole history repeats itself scenario has been going on since KH2, though it was mostly through parallels. This would be the first time it is literally history repeating itself however.

 

Exactly, Nomura was all about parallels ever since Birth by Sleep. I just these parallels were just a nostalgic gimmick, however, this theory can make these "parallels" far more plot relevant than ever before by, as you said, making the Keyblade war be history literally repeating itself.

 

 

really  i don't hate it doesn't make sense  right we don't have much information to based this off now all we got quote  form vulpes saying are we going turn on each other  and her caring for the children right now  plus we only one side of the story  right now that our we need her side of the story first in the backcover movie then we can talk about this theory

 

This is all speculation, and from the news that we've been getting for KHX, it seems more and more possible.

 

 

I feel the reincarnation angle is fairly obvious.1. All hearts are born from Kingdom Hearts.2. All hearts return to Kingdom Hearts upon death. (Proper, natural death, not separation into Heartless and Nobodies)3. Kingdom Hearts is a repository of vast knowledge and power.Wouldn't take much for Nomura to say "When a heart returns to Kingdom Hearts it's memories are wiped clean. This memories are thenot added to the collection of knowledge within."

 

:lol: couldn't agree more, that is such a typical Nomura stance on the series.

[gosoxtim 52]

This is all speculation, and from the news that we've been getting for KHX, it seems more and more possible.

i still say wait until x backcover first before we say yes to this  there still stuff missing like what were the other goals  of ther other fortellers and who is this master of masters and the six apperctice

[animemylove 439]

Gelandporn: There are others who have been reborn. The Five Foretellers: Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus.

We know that these were pseudonyms that their master bestowed upon them so you know what? I’m going to call them by their current names—[spoilers]Aqua, Ventus, Riku, Terra and Kairi, respectively.[/spoilers]

 

 

Yeah that’s right! The biggest giveaway is, in typical Nomura fashion… their fashion. Color-coordination between clothes and hair: Blue, Yellow, Grey, Brown, Pink. Not to mention, the body types match perfectly. Even the palette of some of their keyblades bear a resemblance (Terra and Ursus having the most obvious similarity).

 

Honestly I hate when long running series bring in reincarnations for their main characters later on in the running. I feel it really destroys the fact that the characters  trained and fought continuously,  to better themselves throughout the series to fight for their ideals and just made them 'destined for greatness' .. it ruined the ending of naruto for me and I really hope kh stays away from it for our protagonists.

[Guest]

Honestly I hate when long running series bring in reincarnations for their main characters later on in the running. I feel it really destroys the fact that the characters  trained and fought continuously,  to better themselves throughout the series to fight for their ideals and just made them 'destined for greatness' .. it ruined the ending of naruto for me and I really hope kh stays away from it for our protagonists.

 

Dude, why'd you ruin the ending of Naruto for me?  :sad:

[animemylove 439]

Dude, why'd you ruin the ending of Naruto for me?  :sad:

 

that can hardly be considered a spoiler .. by any means

[Guest]

that can hardly be considered a spoiler .. by any means

 

Cause now I'm going to expect a "reincarnation exposition" soon.

 

Back to topic, I see no harm in reincarnation. Reincarnated doesn't mean that they are duplicates (*cough* Ventus/Roxas *cough*).

[animemylove 439]

Cause now I'm going to expect a "reincarnation exposition" soon.

 

Back to topic, I see no harm in reincarnation. Reincarnated doesn't mean that they are duplicates (*cough* Ventus/Roxas *cough*).

 

I just dont like the thought that all their struggles and ideals were for the sake of a predetermined destiny .. lt always seems to dull the characters since they aren't actually themselves in a sense.