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Charles Matthews

13 Seekers of Darkness Seating Order Theory

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Hey guys I'm Charles but I go by KeyToDestiny on Deviantart and KhInsider(had an account there years ago but I forgot the password #fml) so I wanted to kinda talk about a little theory of mine that I'm sure others have come up with as well and the subject's probably been beaten to death at this point but just wanted to share a little theory.


Nomura has said the Seekers are all "seated properly" which had me confused for the longest time but.... something sort of clicked
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Like remember how the old Org 13 were all seated from when they first joined and all? The new Org 13's seating order could work in a somewhat similar way but more like when the first got Norted instead. Why else would Saix still be seated as No. 7 in the new group? So we have the main Xehanorts(Master Xehanort, Xemnas and Ansem) take up the first 3 seats and since MX is now taking Xemnas' seat, Xemnas' rank went down to No. 2 and now takes Xigbar's seat who know takes No. 4 which is Vexen's old seat(eliminating his chances of being in the group) And Braig/Xigbar's seat in the new group fits perfectly as well. If proved otherwise, he was the first vessel who was seeded by Xehanort dating way back in BBS as Braig and has been working with Xehanort for years so him getting No. 4 makes sense. 

Now who could be No.5 and No. 6? Well who was norted right after Braig in BBS? Terra. And didn't MX go on and on about Terra being made into a vessel for him and him belonging to him(It wasn't confirmed but was certainly implied. Posted Image


No. 6? Well when Terra was first possessed by Xehanort, Nomura mentioned some time ago that Xehanort left "something behind" and that something wasn't a Heartless. Whatever that "something" is could be what Xehanort had planned to being one of his vessels as a bonus with getting Terra as well. I know it's a long stretch since Nomura's one to retcon and forget stuff(if DDD was any indication) but it would be a perfect excuse to just throw someone in there 

I always wondered why Saix/Isa's rank didn't change and if this theory is correct(which it probably won't) then it would make sense for Saix to stay where he is. We don't know when, but it's implied that Xehanort(or Xemnas) somehow norted Isa/Saix right before the destruction of Radiant Garden or once Isa began his new life as Saix. Xehanort had amnesia(or could have been feigning some of it) from the end of BBS to the destruction of Radiant Garden and his separation into Ansem and Xemnas so.... I don't think he'd have norted anyone else during that time or even remembered to do so unless Braig told him some things. 

So now that we got No.4-7 down, where does that leave No. 8-11? Honestly that's where I'm stumped at the moment. No. 12 is Young Xehanort and why he's No. 12 is not only is he the "youngest Xehanort" but he's literally the guy who acts as the "portal" to get everyone together. Basically it's a scenario of "letting everyone take a seat at dinner before you take your own seat." and that's basically what happened. When Riku went to their headquarters to save Sora, YX basically got everyone together to symbolize the formation of the new group and they all took up their seats before YX finally got to take his own as 12, which would technically be the official time he joins.

No. 13 is still up for grabs, but I'm assuming it's Vantias because 1. Yellow eyes and close connection to Xehanort along with 4 years with Xehanort means he had to have been Norted back then.Why he's not in the group yet is because presently he doesn't have a body. Yes I know YX could easily pick him up through time travel like he did with Xemnas and Ansem but.. for some reason, he didn't or else that scene at La Cite Des Cloches with him and YX wouldn't have happened. Nomura pretty much said that scene was just to show Ven's heart was starting to react within Sora which is why he saw Vanitas in the first place... but at the same time, that scene could just be a foreshadowing for Vantias' return in KH3 when Ven wakes up since I have a feeling when he's active again, so will Vantias in a way and he may even regain his body which then MX would obviously take him so he could join the new group since... he was the original choice for a Darkness to create the X-blade in the first place. I don't see why MX would toss away a valuable asset to his plans for the X-blade. 


So with that, this is my speculation for the seats of the new Org 13 for the time being. 

1. Master Xehanort 
2. Xemnas 
3. Ansem 
4. Xigbar/Braig
5. Terra
6. Whatever the hell MX left behind 
7. Saix/Isa 
8-11. Unknown for now 
12. Young Xehanort 
13. Vanitas.

If the 2.5 Secret Ending really does imply Braig/Xigbar being separate along with Saix/Isa then my theory could be thrown off a good chunk. Well feel free to comment on it. Hope it makes some sense! 

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Well, I definitely find this theory plausible. It's so interesting, but if we stop to think about it, Terra could be saved by his friends, (assuming Ven wakes up after they find Aqua) and that could mean that Terra's spot could be open to someone else, and if we stop to think about THAT being a possibility, then who would take his place? Well if we look at how 'Terranort' was turned into a heartless, along with the creation of Xemnas, we would soon realize that Ansem looks a lot more like MX, and Xemnas looks like Terra without a haircut for about 10 years...doesn't that strike a bit odd to you? If Xehanort left something behind, what could it be? HIS actual nobody? Lets see.... Xehanort's heart was taken by a heartless which formed Ansem, but the body was Terra who made Xemnas, does that mean Terra could have a heartless that could take No. 5, and Xehanort's Special Nobody that he "left behind" could take No. 6.

 

I found this to support a few things in this theory. It could easily open Terra to join The Guardians of Light, and if I understand right, (considering Vanitas's return when Ven wakes up) that would fill out a new list.1: Master Xehanort2: Xemnas3: Ansem4: Braig/Xigbar

5: Terra's Heartless

6: Xehanort's "left behind" Nobody

7: Siax/Isa

8-11: Unknown

12: Young Xehanort13: Vanitas

 

I definitely think we're on to something here!  :blink:

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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Well the old Organization Seats were taken by order of the time of joining. This stayed as tradition and still could be with the New Organization if we were to go by this Theory. I'm sort of drawing a blank if this was confirmed by Nomura...but it's definitely apparent considering Roxas joined last...

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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I've never been a huge fan of the Vanitas returning theory but it is possible but I'm pretty sure Young Xehanort isn't one of the 13 seeing as all the seats were filled while he was just walking around. at best he'll be the new number 14 not a true member but useful to their cause.

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Actually he is one of the XIII. He wasn't just walking around in the room encountering Mickey and Riku, as he is able to project what seems like clones of himself. What Riku defeated was probably one of them considering that we actually see Young Xehanort himself sit on one of the seats after the fight.

 

 

 

Either it was a clone, or he never let Riku truly beat him fully, as he just deliberately sits on one of the seats after the fact.

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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Yeah YX is definitely one of the 13

 

Well, I definitely find this theory plausible. It's so interesting, but if we stop to think about it, Terra could be saved by his friends, (assuming Ven wakes up after they find Aqua) and that could mean that Terra's spot could be open to someone else, and if we stop to think about THAT being a possibility, then who would take his place? Well if we look at how 'Terranort' was turned into a heartless, along with the creation of Xemnas, we would soon realize that Ansem looks a lot more like MX, and Xemnas looks like Terra without a haircut for about 10 years...doesn't that strike a bit odd to you? If Xehanort left something behind, what could it be? HIS actual nobody? Lets see.... Xehanort's heart was taken by a heartless which formed Ansem, but the body was Terra who made Xemnas, does that mean Terra could have a heartless that could take No. 5, and Xehanort's Special Nobody that he "left behind" could take No. 6.

 

I found this to support a few things in this theory. It could easily open Terra to join The Guardians of Light, and if I understand right, (considering Vanitas's return when Ven wakes up) that would fill out a new list.1: Master Xehanort2: Xemnas3: Ansem4: Braig/Xigbar

5: Terra's Heartless

6: Xehanort's "left behind" Nobody

7: Siax/Isa

8-11: Unknown

12: Young Xehanort13: Vanitas

 

I definitely think we're on to something here!  :blink:

 

I do like your theory and it does seem plausible especially if to get Terra with the GoL but.... Terra could still be saved during the clash of the 7 vs 13 fight and finally be able to turn on Xehanort. I mean I'm betting a good selection of Norts aren't truly loyal to MX or being forced to fight with him against their wills(Whether this is Saix is unknown)

 

And as for Terra's heartless, it certainly is a possibility actually but IIRC, Terra's heart was never stolen by the darkness well under normal circumstances  and I'd like to think that maybe... Apprentice Xehanort's heart was the combo of both of both Terra and MX's fighting and when the Heartless came, it took his heart meaning Terra/MX simultaneously and they spread off into different forms(MX going to Ansem and Terra possibly going to Xemnas) BUT......Xehanort's "special Nobody" should be out there somewhere. But knowing I could be wrong, you may be onto something with the Terra's Heartless bit :D

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Having Terra be saved at the very last fight would feel anticlimactic and very KHII-ish considering that Riku was shed away from the total darkness he had inside him right before the fight with Xemnas. :unsure: I would like to believe that Terra could be saved about 3/4 into the game about right after you save Aqua and Ventus respectfully. It would make sense. Not to doubt you on your part but I just feel Terra being saved during the initial final fights of the game very disheartening, considering Terra never wanted any of this bull crap Xehanort put him through, and I feel he deserves to shine by fighting by Sora and Riku's side before the final clash. Even more so Riku, because he blessed him with a Keyblade.

 

Huh..  :huh:

 

You know, upon further consideration, Xehanort did actually just went up and pretty much took untrustworthy vessels anyway, it's almost like Xemnas was downright lying when he said that a number of the old organization members were facing a burgeoning replacement? I don't think that was the truth; it's like you said, they would've been "forced against their will". Xigbar (considering that he still has his "own plans"), Terra (We know he might come back with the help of Aqua and Ven), and Isa (especially if Lea can use the keyblade to help him somehow) all seem that they are salvageable to Sora and Co. If they (or even only Terra) defect BEFORE the fight we might be right on this theory after all.  

However, we are drawn to an impasse, as this could also possibly happen AFTER the fight, which would definitely set Terra, Isa, and Braig as a SoD, and this case is closed wrong on our part. 

So we might be losing a few members probably AFTER or BEFORE the fight...and so we're still unsure of the final list of the SoD.
In other regards, the GoL could not what we expect to see as said by Nomura. Lea could one GoL after all. and Terra could be still drowned in Xehanort's heart and mind...

 

However, I believe Terra's Heartless, and Xehanort's "Special" Nobody could co-exist with Ansem and Xemnas and we just aren't enlightened to that possible truth we are theorizing. To support this, what you said is true. Terranort has Terra's heart Incarnate, while Xehanort possessed it "intimately". When the heartless stole Terranort's heart, Terra probably did have his incarnate heart taken by a heartless, and then that heartless formed as a SoD like Ansem did. Xehanort was revealed by Nomura HIMSELF that he left something behind. When you hear the word "something" you realize that he can't be talking about a person...unless he was referring to Nobodies as they are classified as not a person, but "shells", mere walking puppets that have no fully developed heart and can't make one unless it can nurture itself. It could mean that Xehanort left his shell behind and is letting it nurture itself with his Will...!

Posted Image

Seriously, we aren't in that much of a stretch from this...

This COULD happen!

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The seating height is determined by how many missions the person has accomplished, or how useful they are in a sense. I believe that is what nomura was refering to rather than the seat that the original XIII sat in, maybe

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The seating "height" IS determined by how many missions the person has accomplished, yes. But...something just doesn't add up...the seats themselves are reserved for specific members....

 

 

 

.......Mmmm.....
 

Ahh, actually you, me AND Charles could both be wrong...and Nomura is winking his eyes at us because of his slyness...
 

 

Allow me to quote the KHWiki's Organization XIII page, referencing the Inner Workings page...I think you'll find what I'm thinking about interesting... 

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Inner Workings

Once fully inducted, the new members are introduced to the other members at Where Nothing Gathers, the meeting chamber of the Organization deep within their home base of the Castle That Never Was. The room contains thirteen thrones, one for each member, whose height is adjustable but depends on their respective member's success in completing missions. Despite this, Xemnas's throne always remains the highest. To his left are the odd-number ranked members while to his right are the even-numbered. Starting from Xemnas, clockwise, the members are Xaldin, Lexaeus, Saïx, Demyx, Marluxia, and Roxas, then Larxene, Luxord, Axel, Zexion, Vexen and Xigbar.

 

 

After being renamed, each member is given a uniform and a rank from I to XIII. The rank is based on seniority, and although the leader of the Organization, Xemnas, is also the rank I member, the ranks are not true measures of authority within the Organization. For example, the rank IV Vexen, a founding member of the Organization, is subordinate to the rank XI Marluxia, while the rank VII Saïx acts as Xemnas's second-in-command, right before the rank II Xigbar. Their uniform, a hooded black coat, was chosen because it was something once worn by Master Xehanort, Xemnas's primary original persona, to safeguard him from the darkness between worlds while not cutting him off from it.

 

So...what the........hell?

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The new organization probably doesn't follow the mission part, as their one common goal is to create Kingdom Hearts. So it can't JUST be based on completing missions. And it certainly can't be coincidental because they can change their heights...it wouldn't be "Organized" in that regard. I think and honestly believe at this point, is that the new organization is based possibly on age. Unlike Seniority, which IS based on the time of joining, AGE is totally different...

 

Think about it. ...Xehanort is #1, and he's the oldest. Xemnas and Ansem become 2nd and 3rd in command because they are technically HIS darkness, and Xemnas may have Terra's body, but he has Xehanort's darkness from the get go, and almost seems like they would take #2 and #3 anyway BECAUSE of their direct ties to Xehanort. Braig would stay where he is because he's aged since BbS. And Terra's Heartless (assuming it traits directly to Terra) as well as Xehanort's "other Nobody" (considering the fact to have Xehanort's body) but Terra's recovering heart counters this, meaning they would stay put as well!!! Isa would say put too, because he is definitely younger than Terra in BbS. That would leave the 4 unknown individuals to speculate on. What we have to go by is that the age rule still applies...because Young Xehanort took on the form of his youth, meaning that he would be about a little bit older than Sora in this regard, which would make sense that they were trying to possess him...

 

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Huh...now THAT is making me think..! What if they were just trying to possess Sora because he looked like Vanitas in the first place? Like Charles said, Young Xehanort probably can't recruit Vanitas yet because he has no body...

WHAT IF...that they were trying to drown Sora in darkness so they could make a NEW Vanitas AS Sora?! 

Now that would be a long shot on my part considering Xehanort was just about to PLANT his heart into Sora, but knowing Xehanort he has so many backup plans to take...if Ven were to wake up, Vanitas' will be relivable *possibly* there at THAT time, which could be a revival opportunity for Young Xehanort to grab Vanitas way back from BbS to join the ranks. 

 

Posted Image

 

Call me crazy, but I think that we found something interesting... but this is only getting more mysterious at this point... :wacko: Even I could be wrong too...

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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age? Wouldn't Xigbar be 2nd still then, he is clearly older than Terra's body, the body that Xemnas is Atleast based off of. And vanitas has never had a body, he is pretty much a dark gender inverted Namine...oh god there goes the shippers. But anyway he was born with red eyes so it's safe to say that he was already norted since they did the zoom in the yellow eye to indicate nortification

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age? Wouldn't Xigbar be 2nd still then, he is clearly older than Terra's body, the body that Xemnas is Atleast based off of. And vanitas has never had a body, he is pretty much a dark gender inverted Namine...oh god there goes the shippers. But anyway he was born with red eyes so it's safe to say that he was already norted since they did the zoom in the yellow eye to indicate nortification

 

Well I guess a speculative theory shows itself that it's not based off of "physical body" age, i'm more or less clarifying that its based off of the "Heart" age; like your own metaphysical spirit in your heart and how it's body aged with it simultaneously. The body doesn't need to be OLD or YOUNG to have the same heart, but the heart needs to originate it's age from it's own time and owner. Also the owner of the heart that MX is trying to possess NEEDS darkness to flood in their hearts.

That's how he "possesses" them.

#1-3 would be Xehanort and his heartless and Nobody at present. This would make perfect sense because of Xehanort's heart and mind being naturally planted in the Heartless and Nobody he cast off, not to mention the heart's age.

 

Braig/Xigbar would be next because his own heart is less aged compared to MX.

 

Terra's Heartless, and Xehanort's Special Nobody (as we've speculated existing would exist) would have Terra's characteristic heart and that's how he would be next in command. 

 

Isa/Siax would be next because of his heart being younger than Terra's.

 

8-11 would follow suit, and would therefore be younger than Isa/Siax and then 8 would be older than 9, and so on and so forth.

 

#12 would be Young Xehanort; not based off of his present incarnation's age, rather, but based on the time his heart was reawakened to the version of him waiting, it's like when you time travel, your heart would just reset it's age to the time your selected body has aged, and because leaving your body behind to make time travel possible your will would still be passed on, but your heart resets to that specific moment causing all of your "future data" to restore itself to the time your body had that heart. This makes total sense as the body that waited for the heart is just about a little older than Sora's, and how he exists to be the second youngest member in the new organization.

 

#13 That's where Sora's possible defection to the organization would be somewhat apparent to us. Sora's heart is aged 15 in KHII so that would make him a definable candidate, as well as Roxas, and Riku because of their current heart's age as well. So if they failed trying to possess them, then who would be close enough to be a candidate at this point?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'''''Posted Image

 

 

VANITAS...

 

Why? Because it looks like he was indeed Norted all the way back in BbS, and his origin became intimately from the pure darkness in Ventus's heart. His appearance as Sora justifies as a side effect of his heart connected to Ven's, but to some unknown circumstance Xehanort formed him without a body anyway, and Ven (according to appearance) was probably just about Sora's age as we know him now: age 15 going on 16.

 

 

 

Now...honestly, Age is a pretty poor excuse to speculate the identity of the new organization members, as it isn't truly reliable, but just by looking at all who are currently confirmed to be part of the team...age of the heart seems to compliment the "Organized" nature of The Real Organization XIII no matter how you look at it.

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I really don't think age is a factor...

 

As for Vanitas, I think his eyes are yellow just because his heart is pure darkness.  In BBS Xehanort wasn't planning on using him as a vessel, just to forge the X-blade. I do however think it's very likely that he is a vessel.  I just assumed he was one of the members already there plucked out of time.

 

The vessels can be picked out of any point of time Xehanort was present at.

So I find the most likely candidates to be Vanitas, Terranort, and Riku/Repliku.

Remember in Monstro in 3D how there was a Riku there that the real Riku shrugged off as a projection of the world? (or at least I think he did)  Well that most definitely does not explain why he was in a black coat.  So could it be the replica or his past kh1 self?  I think the replica has much more motive than a past Riku does though.  YMX seemed pretty frustrated with not being able to make Riku into a vessel so we could assume that also applies to his past.

 

As for seats, the only remaining possible old Organization members who have unknowns in their seats are Luxord, Demyx, and Marluxia.

I could see Luxord being one of them.  Marluxia was a traitor so probably not him.  Demyx is... well... Demyx.

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I really don't think age is a factor...

 

As for Vanitas, I think his eyes are yellow just because his heart is pure darkness.  In BBS Xehanort wasn't planning on using him as a vessel, just to forge the X-blade. I do however think it's very likely that he is a vessel.  I just assumed he was one of the members already there plucked out of time.

 

 

IIRC Vanitas' eyes were originally red when he was first born or atleast that's what the BBS novels said(I know novels aren't really canon but apparently some events there do end up being canon if the KH2 FM scene with Xiggy and Zexy was any indicator) Plus it's just strange. Riku when he was basically at the edge of complete darkness in KH1, his eyes remained the same along with others who have had their eyes close to the darkness at some point. The ones who's eyes turn yellow/gold(Braig, Terra and Isa) along with with having darkness invade their body were all explained to have a seed of MX inside them. Vantias(if the novels are correct) pretty much fall into the same category plus he was with alone training with Xehanort for four years. i wouldn't put it past MX to place a piece of his heart inside Vantias just like Sora did for Ventus.

 

Even with all that, I still don't think he's presently one of the members atm. I know we got that whole scene with YX but Nomura's interview about Vanitas not having a body but being sort of "alive" in a sense sort of supports it. I would think that's just a foreshadowing for his revival in KH3 when Ventus wakes up, then he'd join the group as it's 13th member. I couldn't see anybody more fitting than him and it saves us the trouble of having more unnecessary new characters appear out of nowhere. If he was there, we'd have seen him when the Org 13 met up in the TWTNW or been mentioned. He's around but for some reason, wasn't collected from the past like Ansem and Xemnas was. It would have been easy for YX to do so unless Vanitas' situation is a bit more complicated than we thought.

 

 

@Keysmith Wow man I never really thought of it like that though. Nice theory THOUGH it sort of sounds similar to the my theory on the group being chosen from when Xehanort first seeded them. Well except YX. That was pretty elaborate actually but has more meat on it than my theory on why he's 12th :P

Edited by Charles Matthews

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IIRC Vanitas' eyes were originally red when he was first born or atleast that's what the BBS novels said(I know novels aren't really canon but apparently some events there do end up being canon if the KH2 FM scene with Xiggy and Zexy was any indicator) Plus it's just strange. Riku when he was basically at the edge of complete darkness in KH1, his eyes remained the same along with others who have had their eyes close to the darkness at some point. The ones who's eyes turn yellow/gold(Braig, Terra and Isa) along with with having darkness invade their body were all explained to have a seed of MX inside them. Vantias(if the novels are correct) pretty much fall into the same category plus he was with alone training with Xehanort for four years. i wouldn't put it past MX to place a piece of his heart inside Vantias just like Sora did for Ventus.

 

Even with all that, I still don't think he's presently one of the members atm. I know we got that whole scene with YX but Nomura's interview about Vanitas not having a body but being sort of "alive" in a sense sort of supports it. I would think that's just a foreshadowing for his revival in KH3 when Ventus wakes up, then he'd join the group as it's 13th member. I couldn't see anybody more fitting than him and it saves us the trouble of having more unnecessary new characters appear out of nowhere. If he was there, we'd have seen him when the Org 13 met up in the TWTNW or been mentioned. He's around but for some reason, wasn't collected from the past like Ansem and Xemnas was. It would have been easy for YX to do so unless Vanitas' situation is a bit more complicated than we thought.

 

 

@Keysmith Wow man I never really thought of it like that though. Nice theory THOUGH it sort of sounds similar to the my theory on the group being chosen from when Xehanort first seeded them. Well except YX. That was pretty elaborate actually but has more meat on it than my theory on why he's 12th :P

Well like I said, I am wrong most likely. But it makes you think a bit...

 

The time factor when they did get seeded by Xehanort and their own heart's age probably just can't be quite enough to explain the seating order entirely it seems...We undeniably need more information about this new organization. Just going by informational facts isn't enough. It sorta gets me guessing what Xehanort exactly plans to do in the next game...besides spark war...Jeez...if only X(Chi) can give us a couple more answers...I would LOVE to know who it was that talked to the foretellers in that Black Coat...

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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Yeah I'm honestly expecting my "seeding theory" to be wrong in all honesty but... Nomura just made it seem like we would be able to figure it out just by how they were seated and all since it was done "properly" so there must be some pattern but... it doesn't help that nobody existing seems to have shown signs of being a Darkness  besides Terra and Vantias. Xaldin/Dilan has the ears but... he's already been restored back and wasn't taken AND his seat's been taken already so it kinda kills his chances. The "unstable" part is probably just him trying to get a grasp of reality once more and maybe regaining his memories.

 

 

i have a feeling Xchi's being thrown into the equation as an excuse not only to give Xehanort more credibility as a "God" villain with the Foretellers thing, but so they could find some people there who could fill in some of the ranks of the new Org 13. That Black Coat guy who talked with the Foretellers does seem suspicious indeed. Black coats are typically associated with Xehanort since he apparently came up with the idea of the coats..... question is why is that Black Coat being used in such a distant time before the Keyblade War? Could it have been the 6th Forteller? If so, does this hammer in further the obvious connection Xehanort has with said Foreteller besides possibly wielding his Keyblade? I have a theory on this but.... I'll have to wait until Xchi is over since I'm sure a lot of people have come to the same conclusion and I don't want to derail the post any further.

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Well I guess that brings us a conclusion: Our theories suck at the moment... :lol:  xP 

In order to find out who IS part of the new organization, however, we must remember key aspects and apply them accordingly to future details of KHIII and KHX from Nomura.

A: They must have Darkness. A lot of it.

B: They have Yellow(gold) eyes.

C: The Black Coat (although not always worn for evil intentions) supports who exactly is a member.

D: The only way for them to 'be' a member, they must be recruited by Young Xehanort or by Master Xehanort, depending on the situation of the recruitment.

 

E: .....Master Xehanort in a WHOLE, is devious; and his plans can change at ANY time at this point. This specific fact can throw us over our heads right when we think we know what he is up to.

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

It's almost as if Nomura WANTS us to speculate this hard.

Edited by BDCtheKeysmith

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Haha I know and it sucks. It's like I feel like our theories get us closer to knowing who the new Org 13 are but some other stuff and Nomura's trolling statements send us back to square one which is why I usually don't debate about the new group as much as I did before :P

 

 

Well I guess that brings us a conclusion: Our theories suck at the moment... :lol:  xP 

In order to find out who IS part of the new organization, however, we must remember key aspects and apply them accordingly to future details of KHIII and KHX from Nomura.

A: They must have Darkness. A lot of it.

B: They have Yellow(gold) eyes.

C: The Black Coat (although not always worn for evil intentions) supports who exactly is a member.

D: The only way for them to 'be' a member, they must be recruited by Young Xehanort or by Master Xehanort, depending on the situation of the recruitment.

 

E: .....Master Xehanort in a WHOLE, is devious; and his plans can change at ANY time at this point. This specific fact can throw us over our heads right when we think we know what he is up to.

 

 

 

 

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Once again, Terra and Vantias seem to be the only ones at the moment who fit those requirements since both have great darkness within them, both have yellow/golden eyes, both were closely connected to Master Xehanort(Vantias being his pupil for 4 years and going and Terra "sort" of being his new pupil after his distrust with Ven, Aqua and Eraqus continued growing thanks to MX's manipulations who really just wanted a new vessel) Terra even had the pointy ears when MX turned him into his vessel and we don't know if Vanitas has the same ears due to that damn helmet. But overall, I still don't think Vantias is in the group atm and will probably be saved for as the 13th member but idk, we'd have to wait and see when KH3 rolls on by. It's also why I don't see why people usually include Riku Replica in it as well... probably for that Monstro scene from KH3D which was just the implication of the Dream World showing off memories of Riku's "dark side" only taken form. Just a reminder of what he used to be and nothing more. The Norts wanted Riku originally and even still made some grab on trying to get him onboard(hence Ansem still bugging him on surrendering to the dark once again) so it wouldn't make much sense to have some "Replica" of him in his place. It would just feel cheap.

 

Plus if they wanted to have Terra not have the "White Hair" since he's apparently has his body back, he could easily just have what he had back in that KH2 FM Secret Ending.

 

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I know it was just a concept still being worked on back then but still... 

Edited by Charles Matthews

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Just a question. If 8-11 is unknown, how is it possible all seats are filled? That's the main question I have.

 

Unknown in the sense that we don't know who they are underneath the hood. Otherwise, seeing how they've already taken up those chairs, the seats have literally been...... filled. 

Edited by Charles Matthews

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Unknown in the sense that we don't know who they are underneath the hood. Otherwise, seeing how they've already taken up those chairs, the seats have literally been...... filled. 

Yes but if you have no idea who they are, how will you know whether they are actual organization members or not? I'd say to try and find out deeper in the series or something, which I can maybe do myself as I replay the games. 

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Because they were assembled with Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Braig and Isa to wait for Master Xehanort at TWTNW....? MX even referred to them as his "13 Darknesses?" YX called them the "New Organzation 13?" I have no idea why this is even a debate when 3D threw the scene at us flat out. All we don't know about is who they are hence one of the many mysteries of KH that will be revealed in KH3. 

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There is something I wonder since the day I kinda understood Xehanort's "I need 13 versions of me"-plan... by clashing 13 D's and 7 L's they'll fuse or somehow create the X-Blade, right? Wouldn't that mean that they will perish to exist or become the X-blade itself, so how can Master Xehanort be a part of the 13 Darknesses that he needs in order to make it?

Edited by Henne

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Can't YoungNort travel into the future? So, technically, there could be people who exist in the future filling up that seating arrangement. Particularly, new characters in KH3 that will turn to Norts are already seated in DDD.

 

I mean, that feels way more substantial than say, 6 randomly created characters.

 

Then again, I'm pushing for Larxene and Marluxia to be Norts, since they basically had the same goal as Saix; take over Org from Xemnas and steal KH for themselves.

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Can't YoungNort travel into the future? So, technically, there could be people who exist in the future filling up that seating arrangement. Particularly, new characters in KH3 that will turn to Norts are already seated in DDD.

 

I mean, that feels way more substantial than say, 6 randomly created characters.

 

Then again, I'm pushing for Larxene and Marluxia to be Norts, since they basically had the same goal as Saix; take over Org from Xemnas and steal KH for themselves.

I don't think any of them can be from the future.  I think I recall YMX can only move forward in time.  So if he jumped forward he can't go back unless it's to go back to his own time without his memories.  And I don't think any of them are going to be random characters.

 

Considering YMX is seated in Larxene's seat, I find her to be unlikely.  The logic with Saix might work from Marluxia, but with Saix there was time to actually turn him away from his plans and make him loyal while Marluxia was destroyed in the process of trying to throw a coup and at no point was loyal at all.  I find Luxord and Demyx a lot more possible.  Although Marluxia did seem to be pretty power obsessed... that seemed to work with making Terra one.

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