Confusion About Light and Darkness?

[Forever 3,550]

Okay, so I've been over-analyzing things AGAIN, and it seems that the Light and Darkness plot of Kingdom Hearts is starting to rattle me a bit.

• Some have of the characters in this game believe that Light is good and Darkness is completely bad. ( Master Eraqus)
• Some folks  believe that neither Light nor Darkness are sufficient. (Xemnas)
• And then there's the people who believe that Light and Darkness are a balance, and that neither is more important than the other. (The Fairy from Cinderella)

Okay, so whose right? Here's the things I don't get:

1. Kairi's grandmother tells of a time when all the worlds were connected and everyone lived in the light, and they all loved it.... This   statement alone implies that Light is more preferable. If Light and Darkness are both a balance, then why did everyone only prefer living in the Light?

2. But people began to fight over the Light.....if it was available to everybody, what was the need for fighting over it? Isn't that like starting a war over oxygen?

3.The Light was then swallowed up by Darkness, and now rests deeply inside it...You would think that this means Darkness is bad because it hid the precious Light, but Darkness isn't always evil is it?

4.In BBS, the Fairy Godmother told Aqua she can't fight Darkness with Light, which is exactly what Sora has been doing since the beginning

5.If Darkness isn't evil, then why does it have so many hostile beings living inside it?

6.Everyone has a good and dark side. If Darkness isn't bad, why are the dark sides automatically evil? (Vanitus for example)

7. Why are some people unable to control their dark sides? (Terra)

8. What exactly are the dark sides of us made of? Is it mean thoughts, attitudes, etc.? Ventus was stripped of his dark side, and he was still a little mean towards Aqua.

9. How is it possible for someone to be made of complete Light? Wouldn't that make the Princess unable to do any wrong? (Mary sues?)

10.If you're not supposed to fight the Darkness with Light, then what do you fight it with? Are you not supposed to fight it at all? Well you can' t do that, because most of the creatures of Darkness want to KILL YOU!

11. Some characters like Riku can't fully belong to Darkness or Light, but still identify with the Light. Does this make them biased, or just hypocritical?

12. Is it possible for a person to be bad without the Darkness's help? (I would assume so, because Pete was a naughty dude even before he joined Maleficent.)

13. People lose their Keyblades when they give into the Darkness, but can keep them if they return to/ or stay in the Light? What? If that's the case, then Xehanort should have lost his Keyblade too? (I have a speculation about that, but it's a whole new can of worms, so don't worry about it.)

Can't have it both ways. You wanna say that Light and Darkness are equal, but the Darkness and all it's beings are constantly swallowing up worlds, destroying people's lives, etc. No wonder people prefer the Light. Maybe there's two kinds of Darkness, good and bad? I don't know.

[Jake 1,488]

Thanks for informing us, Never knew most of it.

[Cucco 1,907]

Well, actually, when you think harder about some of these things they do make sense.

[Aru Akise 2,540]

Don't overthink stuff. You've just given me a headache.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Both Darkness and Light are neither good nor evil but Light is easier to control, Darkness is more wild and creatures of darkness rely on survival instinct. This instinct calls them to feed on their main prey, which in this case is hearts and so this leads to destruction. Think of heartless as wild animals. If we humans didn't have civilization we'd be living among them, which would make us easy prey as we have no natural defenses. This is how the heartless see people: easy prey. They are doing what they must do to survive and multiply, which unfortunately is to the detriment of those who dwell in the light.

 

As for sentient beings who use darkness, darkness is an extremely powerful source and with power comes temptation. This temptation leads them to seek more power which corrupts them. It could be said that those who use darkness often consider themselves more powerful than those who have mastery of the light ans not many people choose to wield such a feral power. this makes them believe that they by rights deserve to rule and as said before, seek more power. 

 

In other words, because darkness is wild, when a person uses darkness, the keep their intelligence but revert to a more primal "survival of the fittest:" mentality. those like Riku who use darkness but live by the laws of the light are those who manage to resist that mentality. Riku gave into it once but in doing so learned that using darkness doesn't make you better or stronger then those who resist it but merely that it's a different kind of power.

[kingdombladesventus 53]

To me, think it like this. Judging wheather light is suppose to be good and darkness is suppose to be evil, is wrong. Let's move away slightly from KH logic. Those are just sterotypes that others convinced others to believe in. The KH character believe those philosophies (I think that's the word), because they can manipulate them (the gifted ones to be exact) or how they heard or seen others how they used it. Human beings don't start as evil or good (well, I guess they can start as good in a sense). They are born innocent at first, however, if they get infulenced, then they have choices or ideals to create/make. It is true that you would need both light and darkness, since light brings crops or food in general, also to help with vitamins(d), while the darkness is there to cool things down and well...whatever night does. I mean, would you prefer a world that is always light, while the heat rays shine upon you while working. Anyways, I think I'm getting strayed from KH. Anyways, anyone can be evil or good. It just depends on your morals, personallity, ideals, etc. Master Xehanort became 'evil', because of couriousity. He wanted to find the answers, thinking, 'if I'm to do this, I would need requirements and don't let anyone get in my way'. And Master Eraqus...kinda 'racist'-well, prejudice of darkness, probably he heard or seen darkness from someone or witness what how it was used. SO basically, light and darkness are needed, but, whoever thinks of the sterotype version of them is wrong. If you can manipulate the atoms to from light, darkness, fire, water, electricity, et cetra, it's based on what you intend to do with it. So, about good and evil...it depends on the persons('s) choices. If you want to add or counter my words, go ahead. To me, it's on the person.

[Keyblader_95 1,410]

Okay, so I've been over-analyzing things AGAIN, and it seems that the Light and Darkness plot of Kingdom Hearts is starting to rattle me a bit.

• Some have of the characters in this game believe that Light is good and Darkness is completely bad. ( Master Eraqus)
• Some folks  believe that neither Light nor Darkness are sufficient. (Xemnas)
• And then there's the people who believe that Light and Darkness are a balance, and that neither is more important than the other. (The Fairy from Cinderella)

Okay, so whose right? Here's the things I don't get:

 

1. Kairi's grandmother tells of a time when all the worlds were connected and everyone lived in the light, and they all loved it.... This   statement alone implies that Light is more preferable. If Light and Darkness are both a balance, then why did everyone only prefer living in the Light?

2. But people began to fight over the Light.....if it was available to everybody, what was the need for fighting over it? Isn't that like starting a war over oxygen?

3.The Light was then swallowed up by Darkness, and now rests deeply inside it...You would think that this means Darkness is bad because it hid the precious Light, but Darkness isn't always evil is it?

4.In BBS, the Fairy Godmother told Aqua she can't fight Darkness with Light, which is exactly what Sora has been doing since the beginning

5.If Darkness isn't evil, then why does it have so many hostile beings living inside it?

6.Everyone has a good and dark side. If Darkness isn't bad, why are the dark sides automatically evil? (Vanitus for example)

7. Why are some people unable to control their dark sides? (Terra)

8. What exactly are the dark sides of us made of? Is it mean thoughts, attitudes, etc.? Ventus was stripped of his dark side, and he was still a little mean towards Aqua.

9. How is it possible for someone to be made of complete Light? Wouldn't that make the Princess unable to do any wrong? (Mary sues?)

10.If you're not supposed to fight the Darkness with Light, then what do you fight it with? Are you not supposed to fight it at all? Well you can' t do that, because most of the creatures of Darkness want to KILL YOU!

11. Some characters like Riku can't fully belong to Darkness or Light, but still identify with the Light. Does this make them biased, or just hypocritical?

12. Is it possible for a person to be bad without the Darkness's help? (I would assume so, because Pete was a naughty dude even before he joined Maleficent.)

13. People lose their Keyblades when they give into the Darkness, but can keep them if they return to/ or stay in the Light? What? If that's the case, then Xehanort should have lost his Keyblade too? (I have a speculation about that, but it's a whole new can of worms, so don't worry about it.)

 

Can't have it both ways. You wanna say that Light and Darkness are equal, but the Darkness and all it's beings are constantly swallowing up worlds, destroying people's lives, etc. No wonder people prefer the Light. Maybe there's two kinds of Darkness, good and bad? I don't know.

Light and Darkness are just elements, you don't need to belong to either of those to be good or bad. Bad beings can use Light powers, like Xemnas does, and good beings can use Darkness power, like Riku and Terra. Anyway no one said the Darkness is not bad, it's just said that Darkness must equal the Light because that's how things go in the nature. But then again, we can't be completely sure if we take the White Mushrooms as instance. Aren't they so cute and fluffy? Anyway you should take it as "a whole is made up by two halves", it's normal that one is good and one is bad (having of course some exception). Anyway Xehanort never gave into the darkness, he always controlled it and that's why his Heart remained strong

[Zola 3,038]

This is why my irritation with this subject has grown with each game.  

 

The first KH game was very clear about Light being good and Dark being bad, as was set up plot-wise with the heartless being darkness incarnate from people's hearts, quotes like "I know now, without a doubt, Kingdom Hearts, is light!" and "The closer you get to the light, the greater your shadow becomes."  All defining pretty definitely the difference and which is preferable.  That was the first and last game that made sense in that aspect.  It set up the idea that the only way to really reach this sought after light, this Kingdom Hearts, was by becoming light yourself, as the guy we then knew as Ansem found out the hard way.  Yes, the light can be terrible, and that was addressed; you cannot bear it;s presence if you're full of darkness, as Ansem was, but it is still everything that is good.  Then, for whatever reason, Nomura decided that it wasn't interesting enough for there to be definite good and bad forces, so he threw in some shades of grey and called them Nobodies, and everything just got all twisted up from there on out and it has taken some pretty awful time travel retroactive continuity to smooth things, but the seams are still bunching up around the plot and I'm really just hoping that KHIII can pull through with a finished product that fits.

 

Just thinking about it logically destroys this whole balance idea people are so fond of using to try to argue their point, as if darkness were an element.  Darkness cannot coexist with light, and light will, in fact, always win against the darkness around it, because darkness is literally just the absence of light, and can do absolutely nothing against even the tiniest little spark.  Light is the greater power by far.   Darkness is the embodiment of energetic equilibrium and entropy.  Light is what offsets that decay, putting energy back into the system and the means whereby anything can happen at all. 

 

Yeah, so those are my thoughts.  

 

[/rant] The regression from Logic to Nomuralogic.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Zola

[Danex Darkfire + 1,712]

two words, nomura logic

[Keyblade Master Xoncron 499]

You have been over analyzing things again. I don't think this was meant to be thought about so deeply.

[VeNate13 144]

Evil is technically a point of view. From Vanitas's point of view he's probably doing the right thing. The main difference I believe from light and darkness is darkness is mostly about self-interest while light is about the interest of others. Or maybe you and I are just over thinking it. Also I don't know if this explains anything but darkness is just the absence of light so that's why you can't fight darkness with light I guess.

[Dave 5,715]

I've always interpreted Light to be representative of positive traits, such as Kindness, Love, Friendship, etc. And that in the beginning, of course, everyone wanted it, because why wouldn't you? But from this desire and want sprouted something, and converted and twisted the longing for the Light into Lust, Envy, Greed, etc., as people wanted to keep the Light for themselves, or prevent others from having more of it than them. And that is essentially what Darkness is: it's taking the good of the Light and corrupting it until it is almost the flip side of what it started out as. 

 

As for the concept of balance, I think it's less a matter of having equal sides Light and Dark and more about keeping your Dark in check. People are naturally not going to be nice 24/7, but you don't need to let your Darker thoughts run rampant and crush everything else in your day. Because, frankly, if there were more Light in the world, people would be a lot nicer, and I don't think people will object to that. 

 

The problem is that the newer games really have just changed the meaning of Light and Dark to the point where they just words meaning Team A and Team B, which I don't think is as satisfying or as fun to read. One of the things I did actually like about DDD was that Riku does finally conquer his Darkness, in that he gets over his Jealousy towards Sora and, more importantly, his anger towards himself for being such a jerk. That reconciliation within himself is a big deal, and booting out Ansem for the last time means that he's no longer a slave to passions, but can steel himself for the greater good. The problem, though, lies in the fact that he can still use his Dark powers, and the game treats controlling Darkness less as overcoming despairs of his past and more as, for lack of a better way of putting it, taming a lion that you can still sic on people and embrace the power of. And, let's be honest, things like Dark Firaga are there to be cool, which means that his failures and descents in the past have only rendered him more aesthetically pleasing, and thus nearly abetting in destroying the world was totes worth it. And the idea that Riku can embrace the Darkness and still use it's powers while losing nothing in the process, while arguably being more powerful for embracing the fact, kind of negates a lot of the points made in the first game.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Dave

[Forever 3,550]

Wow, I really appreciate all the opinions! This has been bugging me and I'm happy to see some other points of view regard the subject. Thanks a lot for taking the time to read and respond.

[FutureKeybearer 36]

I find that neither darkness nor light are inherently good or evil. People just assigned those titles to them. People have a tendency to use light for the sake of good, and darkness for the sake of evil. To help prove my point, lets use the heartless as and example. The heartless on their own are like wild animals. they don't do what they do to be evil, they're just acting on instinct. However, Siax says that the heartless follow whoever the see as strongest, which is usually someone using the darkness. By that logic, is a strong enough person wanted to, they could use the heartless as allies of good. Also people can use the light to do bad things, like Eraqus using his abilities against Terra and Ven.  

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

Light is Light. Darkness is Darkness. Nothingness is...Nothing! Simples!

 

Also, geez louise! Deep Analysis much Pandy? (I like it... )

[Forever 3,550]

Light is Light. Darkness is Darkness. Nothingness is...Nothing! Simples!

 

Also, geez louise! Deep Analysis much Pandy? (I like it... )

That's how I roll, slaying one puzzling thought at a time! But sometimes, I just give up and eat something. _{That usually helps.}  

Edited July 31, 2014 by Pandy Monium

[TerraOfTheDark 2]

I just realized something. If the darkness inside Ventus' heart was extracted, he would be pure light. And since the princesses of heart are pure light, wouldn't that mean Ventus is a princess of heart.

[Forever 3,550]

I just realized something. If the darkness inside Ventus' heart was extracted, he would be pure light. And since the princesses of heart are pure light, wouldn't that mean Ventus is a princess of heart.

Dun Dun Duuuuun! O__O