14 replies to this topic

[4KHFangel]

So I just watched all the cutscenes from KH3D (with english subs) and from KH2 and I was like "OMG! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!" but then I was like "What?! This doesn't make sense at all?" (by the way I'm talking about Xehanort's plan). To understand Xehanort's plan better I decided to make a summary of everything I know about it!

Plan#1: So we know that Xehanort's initial plan was to force Ventus to create the X-Blade. (Why Ventus precisely? Don't ask me! I don't know.) So Xehanort failed at that and created Vanitas and bla bla bla...So at the end of Birth By Sleep he fails , but succeeds in a certain way since he took Terra's body and has a new plan in mind.

Plan#2: That part isn't really clear for me. So Ansem was working with Xemnas. The plan was to gather 12 bodies that could be filled with a part of Xehanort's heart (Ansem) and gather 7 hearts of pure light so they could create the X-Blade. But why did Xemnas create another Kingdom Hearts and why did Ansem try to access via the Door to Darkness Kingdom Hearts on it's own However they failed when Sora freed the hearts, defeated the nobodies and destroyed Ansem.

Plan#3: Unfortunately Xehanort had a back-up plan and Ansem travelled through time to ask Young Xehanort to gather 11 incarnations of "theirselves". And now they all gather together to create the X-Blade with the 7 princesses and unlock Kingdom Hearts.

So my questions are :
Does this make sense?
Why did Ansem try to get Kingdom Hearts alone?
Why did Ansem try to access KH via the Door to Darkness when Xehanort just lifted his hand up (in KHBBS) and KH was right there?
Why did Xemnas create a Kingdom Hearts?

[sorariku17]

for the plan 3, Ansem never went back in time because they failed i am certain that he went back in time because destiny islands was already done for from the start, and he wanted to warn so the xehanort you see today, kinda is him. maybe not, but i am sure i read that somewhere. xD

[devereauxr]

So I just watched all the cutscenes from KH3D (with english subs) and from KH2 and I was like "OMG! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!" but then I was like "What?! This doesn't make sense at all?" (by the way I'm talking about Xehanort's plan). To understand Xehanort's plan better I decided to make a summary of everything I know about it!

Plan#1: So we know that Xehanort's initial plan was to force Ventus to create the X-Blade. (Why Ventus precisely? Don't ask me! I don't know.) So Xehanort failed at that and created Vanitas and bla bla bla...So at the end of Birth By Sleep he fails http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoti... , but succeeds in a certain way since he took Terra's body and has a new plan in mind.

Plan#2: That part isn't really clear for me. So Ansem was working with Xemnas. The plan was to gather 12 bodies that could be filled with a part of Xehanort's heart (Ansem) and gather 7 hearts of pure light so they could create the X-Blade. But why did Xemnas create another Kingdom Hearts and why did Ansem try to access via the Door to Darkness Kingdom Hearts on it's own http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoti... However they failed http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoti... when Sora freed the hearts, defeated the nobodies and destroyed Ansem.

Plan#3: Unfortunately Xehanort had a back-up plan and Ansem travelled through time to ask Young Xehanort to gather 11 incarnations of "theirselves". And now they all gather together to create the X-Blade with the 7 princesses and unlock Kingdom Hearts.

So my questions are :
Does this make sense?
Why did Ansem try to get Kingdom Hearts alone?
Why did Ansem try to access KH via the Door to Darkness when Xehanort just lifted his hand up (in KHBBS) and KH was right there?
Why did Xemnas create a Kingdom Hearts? http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoti...

Answer to all your questions nomura retconed all the past games because he rushed KH3D lol.

Speaking of the previous titles, about when do you start thinking of the ‘next title’?
Nomura: It’s a gradual process. When Kingdom Hearts was in production, I was considering ideas for Kingdom Hearts II and Chain of Memories. And when those two were in production, I was thinking of ideas for the next three, 358/2 Days, Coded, and Birth by Sleep.
— Were you thinking of KH3D when those 3 titles were in production?
Nomura: KH3D was put together relatively quickly, I was still concepting the story when I brought it to the table.

Edited by devereauxr, 19 July 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Flaming Lea]

Retcon, retcon, retcon

[4KHFangel]

for the plan 3, Ansem never went back in time because they failed i am certain that he went back in time because destiny islands was already done for from the start, and he wanted to warn so the xehanort you see today, kinda is him. maybe not, but i am sure i read that somewhere. xD

I know he didn't go back in time because they failed. He went back in time before they failed. It was their back-up plan I'm sure I wrote that somewhere. xD

[King of all Hearts]

I'll try my best to answer these questions.

1.) If you can understand that Master Xehanort has a plan, but he had a back up plan, but he had a back up plan for the back up plan for the plan, then yes. This makes perfect sense! LOL!
2.) Just becuase Ansem was part of Master Xehanorts plan doesn't mean he didn't want to obtain power for himself. Another way to look at it is that Ansem making this Kingdom Hearts was for Oraganization XIII, but Sora stopped him, so it was Xemnas' turn to make Kingdom Hearts. One thing is ceartin though is that Master Xehanort wanted the Princesses of Heart out of the way.
3.) Because Ansem went through a differnent process to get Kingdom Hearts then Master Xehanort. Nomura has said in an interview that there are different ways to make Kingdom Hearts. That's why Master Xehanort's Kingdom Hearts is blue, unlike Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts which is yellowish.
4.) Xemnas created Kingdom Hearts so he could use Master Xehanort's heart and split it into thriteen for each member of Organization XIII. He lied to them and said Kingdom Hearts was the only way to get their hearts back.

As for the retcon, Nomura says that he was still concepting the story when he told everyone about KH DDD. That doesn't mean that was the story he was going with. It just means he wasn't finished yet. Making a game is a very long process after all.

P.S. I am the Kingdom Hearts fan to end all Kingdom Hearts fans. I am the "King of al Hearts!"

[deathrebirthsenshi]

Well, it was implied earlier that Ansem and Xemnas worked separately and had different plans do to their natures...ie Ansem tried to create a kingdom hearts made entirely of darkness from the destroyed worlds because he was a heartless, and Xemnas made the fake Kingdom Hearts to gain more power...I suppose the opportunity to gain Kingdom Hearts quickly rather than the long way ultimately presented themselves, and they each took it lol. Xemnas I think wanted Kingdom Hearts for more power to make vessels; but the only vessel he got out of Organization XIII really was Isa.

The plan with Ventus, Xehanort admitted, was "hasty." Perhaps all of his other plans were as well a bit?

I also wondered if Ansem and Xemnas both needed to be destroyed, in order for the original Xehanort to return; that could be part of it as well.

Out of curiousity, if you destroy a 'nort of the past, do they all disappear...?

WAIT WAIT WAIT final say: The different 'norts were all gathered in DDD from their respective timelines before they were destroyed, so naturally, when they went back, they knew they had to do things a certain way for the certain outcome...yes!

[Flaming Lea]

I'll try my best to answer these questions.

1.) If you can understand that Master Xehanort has a plan, but he had a back up plan, but he had a back up plan for the back up plan for the plan, then yes. This makes perfect sense! LOL!
2.) Just becuase Ansem was part of Master Xehanorts plan doesn't mean he didn't want to obtain power for himself. Another way to look at it is that Ansem making this Kingdom Hearts was for Oraganization XIII, but Sora stopped him, so it was Xemnas' turn to make Kingdom Hearts. One thing is ceartin though is that Master Xehanort wanted the Princesses of Heart out of the way.
3.) Because Ansem went through a differnent process to get Kingdom Hearts then Master Xehanort. Nomura has said in an interview that there are different ways to make Kingdom Hearts. That's why Master Xehanort's Kingdom Hearts is blue, unlike Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts which is yellowish.
4.) Xemnas created Kingdom Hearts so he could use Master Xehanort's heart and split it into thriteen for each member of Organization XIII. He lied to them and said Kingdom Hearts was the only way to get their hearts back.

As for the retcon, Nomura says that he was still concepting the story when he told everyone about KH DDD. That doesn't mean that was the story he was going with. It just means he wasn't finished yet. Making a game is a very long process after all.

P.S. I am the Kingdom Hearts fan to end all Kingdom Hearts fans. I am the "King of al Hearts!"

Look at the interview a few posts above . Nomura admits himself the plot in DDD wasnt thought out ahead and was rushed . He also says when and in what order he planned games . Theres no way this new plot was in developement when he made KH1 and 2 therefore Xemnas and Ansem's goals were what they always originally were. When he decided to write out the continuation of the plot he did indeed retcon those games to fit the newest plot developements...Even having Xehanort state he was ' hasty and made mistakes' when he first tried to make the Xblade was Nomuras way of covering up his retcons.

Edited by Flaming Lea, 19 July 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[sorariku17]

I know he didn't go back in time because they failed. He went back in time before they failed. It was their back-up plan I'm sure I wrote that somewhere. xD

hmm, maybe the person i read got mixxed up then, but w/e. xD

[4KHFangel]

hmm, maybe the person i read got mixxed up then, but w/e. xD

I didn't get mixed up..wait who are we talking about?!

[King of all Hearts]

Look at the interview a few posts above . Nomura admits himself the plot in DDD wasnt thought out ahead and was rushed . He also says when and in what order he planned games . Theres no way this new plot was in developement when he made KH1 and 2 therefore Xemnas and Ansem's goals were what they always originally were. When he decided to write out the continuation of the plot he did indeed retcon those games to fit the newest plot developements...Even having Xehanort state he was ' hasty and made mistakes' when he first tried to make the Xblade was Nomuras way of covering up his retcons.

I did. Nomura says " I was still concepting the story when I brought it to the table." That means the story wasn't entirely finished yet. He still had plenty of time (At least a year) to create the whole story. No where there does it say he retconned anything. Not saying that this isn't the case, but its not 100% the case.

Unless I'm misconstruing what the word retcon means...?

[Flaming Lea]

I did. Nomura says " I was still concepting the story when I brought it to the table." That means the story wasn't entirely finished yet. He still had plenty of time (At least a year) to create the whole story. No where there does it say he retconned anything. Not saying that this isn't the case, but its not 100% the case.

I didnt say the interview said he admitted to retconning .I said he admitting to rushing the story and its concepts and it was last minute ,not planned out from the beginning. Which it obviously wasnt. The retcons are obvious from what i previously pointed out . If he didnt even think of DDD till right before he did it there is no way KH1 and 2 were planned to have the time travel plot and etc etc . The original intentions of both Xemnas and Ansem were what they were originally written to be bc at the time they were written that was what they were . Till DDD was written and changed it .Thats a retcon.

[sorariku17]

I didn't get mixed up..wait who are we talking about?! http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoti...

the person where i heard my story from, it wasn't you. xD

[King of all Hearts]

I didnt say the interview said he admitted to retconning .I said he admitting to rushing the story and its concepts and it was last minute ,not planned out from the beginning. Which it obviously wasnt. The retcons are obvious from what i previously pointed out . If he didnt even think of DDD till right before he did it there is no way KH1 and 2 were planned to have the time travel plot and etc etc . The original intentions of both Xemnas and Ansem were what they were originally written to be bc at the time they were written that was what they were . Till DDD was written and changed it .Thats a retcon.

I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up. Regardless, I wanted to explain it in my own way and I think its a reasonable explantation.

[MegaNeku]

maybe all the other times were a test for sora.. to get him to a point where he was strong enough for the organisations needs