61 replies to this topic

[hatok]

Yes, Xion was an afterthought, but so to was Days, Ventus and co., and Master Xehanort. How could SE have predicted the popularity of KH?

There are several references to Ventus and co, and Master Xehanort in KH2 though.
Xion just sort of... existed...

[Keyblade Master Xine]

Xion was definately something of an afterthought, given how she's not exactly crucial to Sora's main story, but the wonderful thing with how she was integrated is that 358 Days was a self contained story, to an extent. It had it's own complete plot arc of the life and death of Roxas, and within it Xion's own story fits nicely without bleeding into KHII's narrative.

This is another problem I have with Days. Stories can go 1 of 2 ways: character-based or plot-based. Movie examples I have is The Breakfast Club is character-based while Inception is plot-based. Kingdom Hearts has a plot-based story, and all of the side games while they have their own stories, and BBS added new characters, add to the plot of the series, except Days. Days tried to be like the Breakfast Club of KH, which is not a bad idea, but it didn't work because it added a new character that didn't need to be added, killed her off, then made it so that the other characters didn't remember her to explain why she wasn't mentioned in the other games. I could ramble on and on about why Days suck.

[Dave]

This is another problem I have with Days. Stories can go 1 of 2 ways: character-based or plot-based. Movie examples I have is The Breakfast Club is character-based while Inception is plot-based. Kingdom Hearts has a plot-based story, and all of the side games while they have their own stories, and BBS added new characters, add to the plot of the series, except Days. Days tried to be like the Breakfast Club of KH, which is not a bad idea, but it didn't work because it added a new character that didn't need to be added, killed her off, then made it so that the other characters didn't remember her to explain why she wasn't mentioned in the other games. I could ramble on and on about why Days suck.

I always viewed Days as an appendix game, such as Aragorn's love story with Arwen in Lord of the Rings. It doesn't necessarily add anything to the plot, but it's important for the character's personal life. Really, Days was there to fill in a gap in the narrative space between Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, rather than act as plot exposition and addition such as BBS was. It didn't add to the greater plot, but it didn't really have to, considering that its sole purpose was embellishing the tragedy of Roxas.

Consider it as being like Crisis Core. Anyone who played FFVII knows exactly what's going to happen, and that the ending is inevitable. But it functions as an embellishment to an element of the story that already exists, rather than altering the whole story or bringing anything truly new to the table.

Edited by Dave, 27 May 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[hatok]

I always viewed Days as an appendix game, such as Aragorn's love story with Arwen in Lord of the Rings. It doesn't necessarily add anything to the plot, but it's important for the character's personal life. Really, Days was there to fill in a gap in the narrative space between Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, rather than act as plot exposition and addition such as BBS was. It didn't add to the greater plot, but it didn't really have to, considering that its sole purpose was embellishing the tragedy of Roxas.

Consider it as being like Crisis Core. Anyone who played FFVII knows exactly what's going to happen, and that the ending is inevitable. But it functions as an embellishment to an element of the story that already exists, rather than altering the whole story or bringing anything truly new to the table.

Crisis Core succeeded in adding meaning to an existing story element, while Days added a new story element and tried to make it meaningful,, which always makes it doubly hard to accomplish either. There was NO plot that needed to be filled about Roxas, his actions in KH2 make perfect sense without days. If Days had been like Crisis Core, it would have attempted to add meaning to KH2 (And KH1 and the other side games) by embellishing the existing characters. Instead, the entire Organization barely gets what could collectively be called a cameo, yet all character development done by Xion is completely undone. So in the end, Days undermined itself very effectively by not using any of its assets.
For example, if we had seen more of Roxas' day to day life, and maybe seen that he had gotten along with the people in the Organization (Much like how Zack got along fine with ShinRa) then the tragedy of his betrayal would have weighed more heavily. Similarly, in Crisis Core, Aerith was an incredibly likable character (at least to me) which made me feel sad since I knew she would end up dying. Not much effort is put into Days to try and elicit a similar response about any of the doomed characters in Days (Stop and think about it, every character besides Riku, Namine, DiZ and Mickey is doomed to die a year after the game begins)
And the thing that really got me was after I had beaten Days and looked back, and realized how cheaply the game had tried to manipulate me into feeling for Xion, and then everything sort of fell apart.
Days, like BBS, seems like a story that could have been great if it didn't feel like a few key plot points strung together, only to have the meat of those plto points never filled in. Both lead to strange stories that, to me at least, felt like there was always something being taken for granted.

[Keyblade Master Xine]

I always viewed Days as an appendix game, such as Aragorn's love story with Arwen in Lord of the Rings. It doesn't necessarily add anything to the plot, but it's important for the character's personal life. Really, Days was there to fill in a gap in the narrative space between Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, rather than act as plot exposition and addition such as BBS was. It didn't add to the greater plot, but it didn't really have to, considering that its sole purpose was embellishing the tragedy of Roxas.

Consider it as being like Crisis Core. Anyone who played FFVII knows exactly what's going to happen, and that the ending is inevitable. But it functions as an embellishment to an element of the story that already exists, rather than altering the whole story or bringing anything truly new to the table.

I never watched Lord of the Rings or played Crisis Core.

Crisis Core succeeded in adding meaning to an existing story element, while Days added a new story element and tried to make it meaningful,, which always makes it doubly hard to accomplish either. There was NO plot that needed to be filled about Roxas, his actions in KH2 make perfect sense without days. If Days had been like Crisis Core, it would have attempted to add meaning to KH2 (And KH1 and the other side games) by embellishing the existing characters. Instead, the entire Organization barely gets what could collectively be called a cameo, yet all character development done by Xion is completely undone. So in the end, Days undermined itself very effectively by not using any of its assets.
For example, if we had seen more of Roxas' day to day life, and maybe seen that he had gotten along with the people in the Organization (Much like how Zack got along fine with ShinRa) then the tragedy of his betrayal would have weighed more heavily. Similarly, in Crisis Core, Aerith was an incredibly likable character (at least to me) which made me feel sad since I knew she would end up dying. Not much effort is put into Days to try and elicit a similar response about any of the doomed characters in Days (Stop and think about it, every character besides Riku, Namine, DiZ and Mickey is doomed to die a year after the game begins)
And the thing that really got me was after I had beaten Days and looked back, and realized how cheaply the game had tried to manipulate me into feeling for Xion, and then everything sort of fell apart.
Days, like BBS, seems like a story that could have been great if it didn't feel like a few key plot points strung together, only to have the meat of those plto points never filled in. Both lead to strange stories that, to me at least, felt like there was always something being taken for granted.

Thank you. This is what I've been trying to say.

[Ertyx]

TECHNICALLY, XIon is just a Manic Pixie Dream Girl. Her only real role is to get Roxas to come out of his shell and give him a love interest. Thank you for being useless and useful at the same time, Xion!!!!! Queue the Xion fans start verbally assaulting me! XD

[Exodaze]

I think pretty much anything after KH1 is an afterthought.

[NamineRose]

I don't think we will find out till KH3 comes out. We can never guess with Nomura.

[roxas198]

But you gotta admit just having Roxas and Axel would have made the Yaoi much better.

No offense to anyone, but Akuroku creeps me out a little. I like Roxas and Namine/Xion pairings better.

[Kinode]

No offense to anyone, but Akuroku creeps me out a little. I like Roxas and Namine/Xion pairings better.

...And?
I mean, I ship Rokushi, too. But I like Akuroku.
I dunno, maybe that's because I'm gay.

[KHSoraKeyBlade]

She definitely was but it was still pulled off pretty well. Her story that is.

[MasterTeli]

I think her being an after thought only emphasizes the sadness of her storyline!!!

[deathrebirthsenshi]

Maybe that's the reason Xion WAS created.

Nomura: I'm tired of all the Axel and Roxas yaoi! Put in another Kairi!
But...we have Roxas and Namine together...
JUST DO IT!!!

But there's that shell in the opening of KH2 that represents her. I'm pretty sure the concept for her was being thought of near the end of KH2's production.
And Xion was the explanation for Sora's memories taking so long to fix, so she does have big plot relevance.

The seashell thing comes all the way back from kh1 and the making of the good luck charm. I'm pretty sure the shell came before Xion lol. As for the length it took Namine to fix Sora's memories...I feel like that's still an afterthought, sort of an extra reason to throw in there to explain Xion. It was already implied at the end of CoM that it would take a while, and they made it obvious that Roxas was interfereing. I still love XIon and all and think she's important, I'm just saying...

[Tony Shane Talman]

Xion made the plot better, mabye shes an afterthought: but shes a well thought out afterthought. Who else cried when she did?

[xBlazingAshesx]

Kind of late response, but I believe that during development for KH2 , the staff said that a female character was relevant in Roxas' back story and that she was the driving force for Roxas leaving the Organization. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[LiavGever]

This is another problem I have with Days. Stories can go 1 of 2 ways: character-based or plot-based. Movie examples I have is The Breakfast Club is character-based while Inception is plot-based. Kingdom Hearts has a plot-based story, and all of the side games while they have their own stories, and BBS added new characters, add to the plot of the series, except Days. Days tried to be like the Breakfast Club of KH, which is not a bad idea, but it didn't work because it added a new character that didn't need to be added, killed her off, then made it so that the other characters didn't remember her to explain why she wasn't mentioned in the other games. I could ramble on and on about why Days suck.

Well for your information :
1.In re:coded namine revealed that xion is one of the people that while their gone their hurting need to be mended(by sora)
2.Xion was the explanation for Sora's memories taking so long to fix
3.She appear in DDD(in the game himself not opening or something)
4.She had a good story bad sad.
5.She had an influence of roxas and she is the main reason why he had left the organization

[hatok]

Well for your information :
1.In re:coded namine revealed that xion is one of the people that while their gone their hurting need to be mended(by sora)
2.Xion was the explanation for Sora's memories taking so long to fix
3.She appear in DDD(in the game himself not opening or something)
4.She had a good story bad sad.
5.She had an influence of roxas and she is the main reason why he had left the organization

1) Yes, and if she hasn't been introduced, this plot point could have been removed without any trouble.
2) It didn't really need an explanation. Namine said to Sora that it would take a while
3) And could easily have been removed if Days hadn't existed
4) I'm not sure exactly what this sentence is meant to mean, but Xion's story is not good, it's cheap and nonsensical.
5) Which is weird for two reasons, one, he already had perfectly good reasons to leave explained in KH2, and if Roxas forgot about her, why would that still be a reason why he left the Organization?

[LiavGever]

1) Yes, and if she hasn't been introduced, this plot point could have been removed without any trouble.
2) It didn't really need an explanation. Namine said to Sora that it would take a while
3) And could easily have been removed if Days hadn't existed
4) I'm not sure exactly what this sentence is meant to mean, but Xion's story is not good, it's cheap and nonsensical.
5) Which is weird for two reasons, one, he already had perfectly good reasons to leave explained in KH2, and if Roxas forgot about her, why would that still be a reason why he left the Organization?

LOL !!! I meant good but sad , i wrote bad for a mistake.
Namine said what should had been taken weeks now can take years(becasue of xion)
Which reason he had to leave the organizaiton in KH II ?(I dont remember it very well)
No but because of her he want to know about himself , what he is .. there was still a bit of her inside of him , so he could remeber a little bit (though he he had trouble remember her name)

[hatok]

LOL !!! I meant good but sad , i wrote bad for a mistake.
Namine said what should had been taken weeks now can take years(becasue of xion)
Which reason he had to leave the organizaiton in KH II ?(I dont remember it very well)
No but because of her he want to know about himself , what he is .. there was still a bit of her inside of him , so he could remeber a little bit (though he he had trouble remember her name)

Namine just said it would take a long time. No specific quality. Also 'years'? It took A year.
Roxas was dissatisfied with the Organization, wanted to know who Sora was, and wanted to know why he had the keyblade.
Roxas can't remember her at all. Nobody can. That was the point of the ending.

[heartless101]

Most likely, yeah.
Btw I have never understood why people like gay pairings so much...