6 replies to this topic

[Kyonne]

Okay, so in order to travel back in time one must discard his flesh, that's why he transformed himself into a heartless while his body (Norio Wakamoto) proceeds with the mission of gathering 13 darkness, then the bodyless one from the future travels to the past to tell his younger self about things to happen (Which is kinda funny, he aparently tells about the 13 darkness but he tries to make the X-Blade with just Ventus and Vanitas anyway) and then he travels a little more to the future where he tells some things to Sora for some reason and posseses Riku, since now he's inside Riku he's got a body and can't timetravel anymore and dies...

The thing is, who was this Ansem?
I mean, was it the one from the future or the one who got split in the normal course of time?
And if the one who got destroyed by LIGHTNESS is now with Master Xehanort, then where is the other one?

Edited by Kyonne, 18 April 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[Kinode]

When you time travel, you will eventually HAVE to return to the time you came from. When you do, memories of your time in another timeline would be lost.
This Ansem was, indeed, Ansem SoD, Xehanort's Heartless, who traveled to tell Young Xehanort. In a way, it's a Time paradox, Ansem came back to tell YMX to go back in time and tell himself this as a heartless and proceed with the mission. It's a never-ending loop.

[Kyonne]

So he cameback on time right after becoming a heartles, that means Sora wasn't included in the plan? I tought i've read about him being planned to be the 13th vessel from the beginning, but looks like i'm mistaken

Also i've read that Young Xehanort is timetraveling around gathering the other Xehanorts, is that also a mistake? I mean, he still has his body

[Roxas_Axel_Xion]

So he cameback on time right after becoming a heartles, that means Sora wasn't included in the plan? I tought i've read about him being planned to be the 13th vessel from the beginning, but looks like i'm mistaken

Also i've read that Young Xehanort is timetraveling around gathering the other Xehanorts, is that also a mistake? I mean, he still has his body

No originally it was Roxas but he gain too much of a sense of self and rejoined w/ sora and then it was riku (I think) however something happened like Riku controlling the darkness within him and locking it away and so then the vessel became Sora who was essentially a last resort

[Zanzetsuken]

Hmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So basically. In order to Time-Travel, there are a few rules.

• You need to discard your flesh. As the body ages through but the heart does not I think.
• You need to exist in the time you are travelling to. So you can't go back to before you were born or after your current life.
• You eventually need to return back to the time you came from. You will have no memories of what you did in the other timeline.

When Apprentice Xehanort opened the keyhole to RG and split into the Heartless ; Ansem SoD and the Nobody; Xemnas, the Heartless did not have a body and therefore was able to Time-Travel.

His goal was to go back to the past and speak to Young Xehanort and inform him of the mission to gather the 13 darknesses in the realm of Sleep for 3D, as well as give him the knowledge of Time-Travel.

Then SoD returned back to the current time, which was KH1. He forgot what he did but he knew his mission. SoD's mission was to extinguish the Light of the Seven Princesses so that Darkness could fill the Realm Of Light. He possessed Riku's body so he could experience what he was creating.

Xemnas, on the other hand, was preparing 13 vessels to be filled with fragments of Xehanort. If they knew that they were able to grow back hearts then his plan would fail. So Xigbar and Xemnas lied to the other members, saying that they will only get their hearts back if they completed the Artificial Kingdom Hearts. Once it was completed then he would fill the other members with Xehanort Fragments. But that failed because some of them had already grown hearts, was too weak or was a traitor. So the only ones who had a fragment of Xehanort in them was Xigbar and Saix.

Riku was meant to be the 13th vessel but he developed a tolerance to the Darkness. Roxas was next but he had already grown a heart and returned back to Sora. So Sora became a last resort.

(Also the fact that his heart links to other character was probably a plus for Xehanort. )

That about it?

[Kyonne]

I believe that there's also the condition that you can't change the past

I think Ansem SOD didn't tell Young Xehanort to go to the realm of sleep do stuff, otherwise he would still be there by the time 3D popped in and there wouldn't be a Master Xehanort, i believe (Young Xehanort was all "THIS WORLD IS TOO A9SUD9ASPJDP SAOIHASIFHIPASFAIO SMAAALL" so i guess it makes more sense that he started to journey into other worlds then going to sleep)
As a matter of fact i'm still very confused on how Young Xehanort came there, really would help if there were more final cutscenes with subtitles, guess i'll wait for Cyberman65's playthrough to reach there

As for Norio Wakamoto and his bishonen organization, i don't know if growing a heart is a problem to tranform them on Xehanort, since Braig got his yellow eyes and pointy ears since Birth by Sleep
Everyone in the organization was a potential Xehanort, that's including Roxas, that said he was the first choice, but as Roxas_Axel_Xion said, he couldn't be used
Riku was out of question because the darkness taints him no more, as a matter of fact i believe that at some point Riku disgard his Way to Dawn thing and go full lightness, i may be wrong however

I wonder what would become of Master Xehanort if Wakamoto suceeded, i mean he wouldn't come back to life o_o XD

[atheist123]

Hmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So basically. In order to Time-Travel, there are a few rules.

• You need to discard your flesh. As the body ages through but the heart does not I think.
• You need to exist in the time you are travelling to. So you can't go back to before you were born or after your current life.
• You eventually need to return back to the time you came from. You will have no memories of what you did in the other timeline.

When Apprentice Xehanort opened the keyhole to RG and split into the Heartless ; Ansem SoD and the Nobody; Xemnas, the Heartless did not have a body and therefore was able to Time-Travel.

His goal was to go back to the past and speak to Young Xehanort and inform him of the mission to gather the 13 darknesses in the realm of Sleep for 3D, as well as give him the knowledge of Time-Travel.

Then SoD returned back to the current time, which was KH1. He forgot what he did but he knew his mission. SoD's mission was to extinguish the Light of the Seven Princesses so that Darkness could fill the Realm Of Light. He possessed Riku's body so he could experience what he was creating.

Xemnas, on the other hand, was preparing 13 vessels to be filled with fragments of Xehanort. If they knew that they were able to grow back hearts then his plan would fail. So Xigbar and Xemnas lied to the other members, saying that they will only get their hearts back if they completed the Artificial Kingdom Hearts. Once it was completed then he would fill the other members with Xehanort Fragments. But that failed because some of them had already grown hearts, was too weak or was a traitor. So the only ones who had a fragment of Xehanort in them was Xigbar and Saix.

Riku was meant to be the 13th vessel but he developed a tolerance to the Darkness. Roxas was next but he had already grown a heart and returned back to Sora. So Sora became a last resort.

(Also the fact that his heart links to other character was probably a plus for Xehanort. )

That about it?

^This!

If anyone still disagrees with this remember that Nomura and some japanese believe in "Fate" (in his interviews he always/often talks about fate) so all past events are "fated" to happen such as YX turning into MX, and the Ansem SoD and Xemnas plots being "stopped", Terra being possessed etc. You cannot change the past because Fate prevents any changes from what is meant to happen. You cannot disrupt the time stream as some people say (like what we believe in modern, western sci-fi time travel theory) and create alternative realities just because of Fate. Fate glues all the time traveling into one line of events so when YMX time travels, if it is the heart that travels, then after in wanders it returns to his body in its previous state (or perhaps tainted by darkness; maybe YMX's time traveling is what caused MX to be evil?) to live out its pre-destined life.