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Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep

Ven's released heart

Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep

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#21 Rob

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:58 PM

Sorry, but that's kinda old.


You have no right to say that's kinda old when you post pointless and old stuff. Just saying.

#22 axelrulz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

I don't think you read my post well enough, I said Kairi didn't create another body for him, I said she created a body-like shell to house his heart, as Roxas was Sora's body. He didn't get his body back until KH2. And Sora didn't lose Ven's heart, it stayed in his body when Roxas was created, thus the reason why Roxas had Ven's heart and appearance. If Ven's heart ever left Sora's body, it would have gone straight back to Ven, like the hearts of the 7 Princesses when they were freed.


Ven's heart couldn't have just went back to ven's body. Master Eraqus said that the only person who could navigate through Castle Oblivion and find Ven's body is Aqua, so im pretty sure that includes Ven's heart. And if Ven's heart stayed in Sora's body when Roxas was created, then it would affect Roxas, so Roxas would look like Sora, not Ven. One of the biggest things that separates Roxas from the rest of the Organization is that he's the only one who looks like a person other than his Somebody, so there's obviously gotta be a reason for that, which is that he has Ven's heart. Another thing that separates them is that Roxas has emotions, which you need a heart to have. That was the whole point of Xemnas trying to collect all those hearts and make Kingdom Hearts.

#23 Azure Flame

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

Ven's heart couldn't have just went back to ven's body. Master Eraqus said that the only person who could navigate through Castle Oblivion and find Ven's body is Aqua, so im pretty sure that includes Ven's heart. And if Ven's heart stayed in Sora's body when Roxas was created, then it would affect Roxas, so Roxas would look like Sora, not Ven. One of the biggest things that separates Roxas from the rest of the Organization is that he's the only one who looks like a person other than his Somebody, so there's obviously gotta be a reason for that, which is that he has Ven's heart. Another thing that separates them is that Roxas has emotions, which you need a heart to have. That was the whole point of Xemnas trying to collect all those hearts and make Kingdom Hearts.


You seem to forget that a Nobody is created FROM THE PERSON'S BODY AND SOUL! So Roxas was created from Sora's body. Ven's heart stayed inside and changed it to look like Ven, which is why Roxas looks like Ven and not Sora. I'm not saying that Roxas doesn't have Ven's heart, but that he does. I'm saying Ven's heart stayed in Sora's body when it became his Nobody, Roxas. That is how Roxas has Ven's heart. Also, Ven's heart is connected to his body, so it could find it's way back to his body, it doesn't have to navigate through Castle Oblivion to do so.

#24 axelrulz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:50 PM

You seem to forget that a Nobody is created FROM THE PERSON'S BODY AND SOUL! So Roxas was created from Sora's body. Ven's heart stayed inside and changed it to look like Ven, which is why Roxas looks like Ven and not Sora. I'm not saying that Roxas doesn't have Ven's heart, but that he does. I'm saying Ven's heart stayed in Sora's body when it became his Nobody, Roxas. That is how Roxas has Ven's heart. Also, Ven's heart is connected to his body, so it could find it's way back to his body, it doesn't have to navigate through Castle Oblivion to do so.


What does the Nobodies being made from people's bodies have to do with anything? I said that I don't know why Sora randomly got his body back. Just like with MX, he couldn't come back until his heartless AND his Nobody were destroyed. If you mean that Sora's body turned into Roxas's, then I don't know how Sora got a second body, but I don't think Ven's heart could just decide to stay inside of it. The Keyblade of people's Hearts extracts people's hearts. ALL of them. Ven's isn't an exception. And Ven's heart couldn't just find Castle Oblivion and get in the Room of Awakening. That's like looking for a needle in a never-ending haystack that's in another never-ending haystack. It would've gotten lost in oblivion forever, which is suicide.

#25 Azure Flame

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:06 AM

What does the Nobodies being made from people's bodies have to do with anything? I said that I don't know why Sora randomly got his body back. Just like with MX, he couldn't come back until his heartless AND his Nobody were destroyed. If you mean that Sora's body turned into Roxas's, then I don't know how Sora got a second body, but I don't think Ven's heart could just decide to stay inside of it. The Keyblade of people's Hearts extracts people's hearts. ALL of them. Ven's isn't an exception. And Ven's heart couldn't just find Castle Oblivion and get in the Room of Awakening. That's like looking for a needle in a never-ending haystack that's in another never-ending haystack. It would've gotten lost in oblivion forever, which is suicide.


Bodies and Hearts are connected. It's like how when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed and thier body and heart combine again. They don't go searching for eachother, they just meet. Also, nowhere does it say that that the Keyblade of People's Hearts extracts all the hearts in someone. Ansem/Riku used it on Maleficent and it didn't extract her heart, it turned her into the dragon. And Sora doesn't get a second body, he gets a body-LIKE shell. Not an actual body, but a shell to hold his heart temporarily until he got his body back from Roxas.

#26 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:24 AM

Bodies and Hearts are connected. It's like how when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed and thier body and heart combine again. They don't go searching for eachother, they just meet. Also, nowhere does it say that that the Keyblade of People's Hearts extracts all the hearts in someone. Ansem/Riku used it on Maleficent and it didn't extract her heart, it turned her into the dragon. And Sora doesn't get a second body, he gets a body-LIKE shell. Not an actual body, but a shell to hold his heart temporarily until he got his body back from Roxas.


I never said the Keyblade of People's Hearts only had one purpose. Extracting people's hearts is only one of them, and im sure it has a loot more. And by saying it extracts all hearts, I meant that it could be used on anyone, including Ven. And again, I doubt Kairi can make him a "body-like shell". Especially by hugging him. Thats cheesy. And if she can make this "shell" you speak of, she should have just made him an actual body. And it never said that Sora got a "body-like shell".

#27 Snow

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:29 AM

What does the Nobodies being made from people's bodies have to do with anything? I said that I don't know why Sora randomly got his body back. Just like with MX, he couldn't come back until his heartless AND his Nobody were destroyed. If you mean that Sora's body turned into Roxas's, then I don't know how Sora got a second body, but I don't think Ven's heart could just decide to stay inside of it. The Keyblade of people's Hearts extracts people's hearts. ALL of them. Ven's isn't an exception. And Ven's heart couldn't just find Castle Oblivion and get in the Room of Awakening. That's like looking for a needle in a never-ending haystack that's in another never-ending haystack. It would've gotten lost in oblivion forever, which is suicide.

Looking at the way this is going, you're going to epicly fail debating with Azure.

He's completely right. He knows what he's talking about.
Ven's heart was not extracted. It sort of 'stayed behind' to use Sora's body and form it in his image.


I never said the Keyblade of People's Hearts only had one purpose. Extracting people's hearts is only one of them, and im sure it has a loot more. And by saying it extracts all hearts, I meant that it could be used on anyone, including Ven. And again, I doubt Kairi can make him a "body-like shell". Especially by hugging him. Thats cheesy. And if she can make this "shell" you speak of, she should have just made him an actual body. And it never said that Sora got a "body-like shell".

When you hug somebody, it doesn't mean you can't use magic while doing so.
And just because it never says something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Ven's heart formed Sora's body into his physical appearance, creating a shell for Roxas.
Also, if that were possible for Kairi to create bodies, Xehanort ould've found out and kidnapped her before the events of KH1.

#28 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:42 AM

When you hug somebody, it doesn't mean you can't use magic while doing so.
And just because it never says something doesn't mean it didn't happen.


It kind of does. If you don't go by the facts, then you can make up pretty much anything, which is what's going on now. Im not trying to argue, I'm trying to straighten out the facts, so I'm going by what the games said.

Also, if that were possible for Kairi to create bodies, Xehanort ould've found out and kidnapped her before the events of KH1.


MX would have been fine with using a "shell" if Kairi could make them (which it never says), and since NO ONE in the ENTIRE kingdom hearts universe said ANYTHING about kairi spontaneously making bodies, MX wouldn't find out anyway.

#29 Rob

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:42 AM

Bodies and Hearts are connected. It's like how when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed and thier body and heart combine again. They don't go searching for eachother, they just meet. Also, nowhere does it say that that the Keyblade of People's Hearts extracts all the hearts in someone. Ansem/Riku used it on Maleficent and it didn't extract her heart, it turned her into the dragon. And Sora doesn't get a second body, he gets a body-LIKE shell. Not an actual body, but a shell to hold his heart temporarily until he got his body back from Roxas.


The long battle between knowledge and ignorance continues. lol

#30 Zenithia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:58 AM

I never said the Keyblade of People's Hearts only had one purpose. Extracting people's hearts is only one of them, and im sure it has a loot more. And by saying it extracts all hearts, I meant that it could be used on anyone, including Ven. And again, I doubt Kairi can make him a "body-like shell". Especially by hugging him. Thats cheesy. And if she can make this "shell" you speak of, she should have just made him an actual body. And it never said that Sora got a "body-like shell".


tutti frutti. I have to agree with the statements that Axelrulz has placed so far. For the most part, we don't really know how the heart is able to located the body and soul in order to merge back into one. Ven's heart could in fact reached Ven's body in Castle Oblivion in the same, if not similar manner on how Terranort has regain his form. As for Kairi, there's nothing really stating that Kairi used any of her ability as a Princess of Heart, since we don't really know what the Princesses of Heart are capable of outside of holding back the darkness, which is what one of them stated IN THE GAME. Also, if Kairi did have the ability to make a body-like shell, then I'm sure that some form of MX/Terranort would kidnap either Kairi or one of the other PoH for that very purpose. Ultimately, we don't truely know how Ansem SoD was able to retain a human form after becoming a heartless. Keyblade-wise we don't know completely on what the Keyblade is capable of outside of cutting, injuring, locking things, unlocking things and releasing hearts. Until it is revealed what the Keybalde is fully capable of doing, we can't say what the completely what it can do without solid facts. Though, for the time being I would think that if Ven's heart didn't go into Roxas, I would believe that his heart returned to him.

#31 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:02 AM

tutti frutti. I have to agree with the statements that Axelrulz has placed so far. For the most part, we don't really know how the heart is able to located the body and soul in order to merge back into one. Ven's heart could in fact reached Ven's body in Castle Oblivion in the same, if not similar manner on how Terranort has regain his form. As for Kairi, there's nothing really stating that Kairi used any of her ability as a Princess of Heart, since we don't really know what the Princesses of Heart are capable of outside of holding back the darkness, which is what one of them stated IN THE GAME. Also, if Kairi did have the ability to make a body-like shell, then I'm sure that some form of MX/Terranort would kidnap either Kairi or one of the other PoH for that very purpose. Ultimately, we don't truely know how Ansem SoD was able to retain a human form after becoming a heartless. Keyblade-wise we don't know completely on what the Keyblade is capable of outside of cutting, injuring, locking things, unlocking things and releasing hearts. Until it is revealed what the Keybalde is fully capable of doing, we can't say what the completely what it can do without solid facts. Though, for the time being I would think that if Ven's heart didn't go into Roxas, I would believe that his heart returned to him.


THANK YOU!!! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

#32 Snow

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

It kind of does. If you don't go by the facts, then you can make up pretty much anything, which is what's going on now. Im not trying to argue, I'm trying to straighten out the facts, so I'm going by what the games said.



MX would have been fine with using a "shell" if Kairi could make them (which it never says), and since NO ONE in the ENTIRE kingdom hearts universe said ANYTHING about kairi spontaneously making bodies, MX wouldn't find out anyway.

What Xehanort needed was a legitimate body, not a shell.

#33 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:13 AM

What Xehanort needed was a legitimate body, not a shell.


Not necessarily. Azure Flame said that Sora was using a "shell", not his own body, and he seemed like he was doing pretty well in CoM, so im sure MX would have been just as strong with a "shell".

#34 Zenithia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:25 AM

THANK YOU!!! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!


tutti frutti. No problem there. For the most part there are too many loopholes and questions in the series to make anything certain from what we already know about it from the games themselves and interviews from Nomura. Outside of the information that we have access to, we can only assume to stuff we don't know about yet. Ven's heart could have returned to himself, to Sora, or even went to KH itself, we can't say for certain until we get the answers we deserve.

#35 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:29 AM

tutti frutti. No problem there. For the most part there are too many loopholes and questions in the series to make anything certain from what we already know about it from the games themselves and interviews from Nomura. Outside of the information that we have access to, we can only assume to stuff we don't know about yet. Ven's heart could have returned to himself, to Sora, or even went to KH itself, we can't say for certain until we get the answers we deserve.


I completely agree. You never really know what's right until they say exactly what happened. And even some of the things they already explained are hazy.

#36 Zenithia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:40 AM

I completely agree. You never really know what's right until they say exactly what happened. And even some of the things they already explained are hazy.


tutti frutti. That is true. Though because of that I wish that the series began to be more consistent.

#37 axelrulz

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:50 AM

tutti frutti. That is true. Though because of that I wish that the series began to be more consistent.


I'm not sure if it's a matter of consistency, I think they're purposely leaving things out so we can try to figure things out by ourselves and build our own Kingdom Hearts in our imaginations that's different from everyone else's.

#38 Zenithia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:59 AM

I'm not sure if it's a matter of consistency, I think they're purposely leaving things out so we can try to figure things out by ourselves and build our own Kingdom Hearts in our imaginations that's different from everyone else's.


tutti frutti. You got me there since the team in Nintendo that works on the Zelda series seems to do the same thing. To me that's one of the things that I like about some series where you let your imagination do the work. Though for people outside of companies, such as SE, that claim to know what isn't revealed can be frustrating to deal with.

#39 Zenithia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

No, Ven's heart stayed in Sora's body and helped form it into Roxas while Sora's Heartless was given a body-like shell thanks to Kairi's powers bringing him back from the Darkness. Then at the begining of KH2, Sora and Roxas merged, with Sora's body taking it's normal form again.


tutti frutti. Azure, mostly because this has been bugging me, where is it explained that Kairi used her powers to help Sora the way you mentioned? And if I remember right, Sora and Roxas merged more towards the end of KH2.

#40 Azure Flame

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 09:50 AM

tutti frutti. Azure, mostly because this has been bugging me, where is it explained that Kairi used her powers to help Sora the way you mentioned? And if I remember right, Sora and Roxas merged more towards the end of KH2.


It didn't exlain it really, it was more of an educated guess. And it's possible that she did do it, and not even know she did or how she did it because at that time she didn't even know of her powers. Also, Sora and Roxas merged twice. In the begining to make Sora whole, and then at the end they had a complete merging. In a way, it's kinda like Ven and Vanitas in BBS. The battle between Sora and Roxas in TWTNW is similar to the final battle of Ven and Vanitas, except they were just fighting for control, not to destroy one-another.





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