9 replies to this topic

[TheNewNobody]

hi guys, all begin directly, everybody know that a nobody and a heartless is created when a strong heart falls in to darkness or when it leaves a body, and when Xehanort´s heart left his body and went to Terra´s body it created Terranort and later they became young Xehanort, we all know that is was Young Xehanort´s experiment on the heart that later created Xemans and Ansem, now her is the theory, when Xehanort´s heart left it's body accordin to KH fact it should have created another nobody and a heartless is that not right. hope you all understand what i meant, bye

[Xylek]

i thought "Terranort" grew up to be Ansem cause he kept his body when he became a heartless

[TheNewNobody]

i thought "Terranort" grew up to be Ansem cause he kept his body when he became a heartless

No Terranort did not grow up to be Ansem that would mean that Terra is destroyed

[ssceles]

Right, although that was a very unique case... Master Xehanort's heart was removed from his body but it didn't go into the dark, it went into Terra. Interestingly, 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness' matches up well with this, as when Apprentice Xehanort lost his heart, 'his' Heartless seems to be a two-set masterpiece with the Guardian and all. Whether or not Master Xehanort inside was a Heartless all along or didn't become one until Terra's heart officially left his body is debatable, but either way he showed an interesting connection to the Heartless when they first began appearing in Radiant Garden.

As for this creating a Nobody... Kairi was never capable of falling into darkness herself, but her heart still left her body to be with Sora. So somewhere between the automatic assumption you 'lose your heart, it falls to darkness' and you get a Heartless and a Nobody... its actually a two-step process in my mind, and completely backwards. You lose your heart, you get a Nobody. It falls to darkness, you get a Heartless. If it doesn't fall, or cannot fall because of princess status, you're simply not going to get a Heartless, but you still have a Nobody. And just because your heart returns to your body, or any body, it doesn't mean your Nobody just goes away. Kairi restored Sora's heart in Hollow Bastion, afterall.** This very easily means that Namine appeared the moment her heart left her body to go to Sora, not when it left Sora's body to return to Kairi.

In any case... the Birth by Sleep Final Mix extra boss 'No Heart' = MX's Nobody, perhaps? And yet I do not doubt that Xemnas is 'Terranort's Nobody, not simply Terra's. With that thought in mind, the logistics of hearts leaving bodies and having to take into account when, where, why and how a Nobody takes on the form it does... well that's still in the works. Sora and Xehanort are very unique cases and while their experiences can be compared, there's just no comparing some very important details.**

**Why does Sora's Nobody look like Ventus and not Sora? If Sora doesn't have a Nobody that looks like him, why can't Xehanort have two? Roxas is very much Sora + Ven in the same way I believe Xemnas is Terra + Xehanort. Not just Terra, definitely not just Sora or Ven. Their hearts were one in their original bodies, and the body was influenced by both. The Nobody is tied to both hearts.

**I keep using these to tie things together, but... as it was, Sora's heart was returned to the body. Was Ven's heart returned to Sora's body? The imbalance ever after in Sora (anti!form) makes me assume most definitely not (and while Roxas rejoined with Sora at the start of KH2, that doesn't necessarily mean Ven's heart returned). It was perhaps at this early point, a matter of minutes after his creation, that Roxas changed to the mute state he was for so long, seemingly to entirely have forgotten his past, leading him to be so curious to pursue after information on Sora all because Sora's heart was rescued from the dark. (He may have even looked like Sora prior to Sora having his heart restored.)

This leads me to my final conclusion... the other Organization members remember their past excluding Xion (who isn't a Nobody proper), Roxas (who is missing his connection to Sora because Sora was restored), and Xemnas. Perhaps Xemnas is missing his full memory because Master Xehanort does indeed have a separate Nobody. Effectively he would have had one prior to his heart leaving A body again, not, but effectively, yes. Or it could also have something to do with the recent defeat of 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness'.

Whatever the reason, these things are all connected. And there's still one glaring flaw in all of it, so before I get jumped on about it:

Riku's heart left his body. But his body didn't fade away. He does not have a Nobody. It is not simply about the heart leaving the body and falling into darkness. However, Kairi's heart left her body and her body didn't fade away. She DOES have a Nobody. Neither have Heartless. Kairi because her heart is far from compatible with darkness and Riku... well, he's just lucky, isn't he? There was no heart inside Kairi, but... inside Riku... there was 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness'. Riku's body was never alone without a heart inside it, while Kairi's was. This implies 'Ansem', Xehanort's Heartless counts as a heart.

o3o So... really, all cases are too different to draw exact conclusions on some points. If it can be made more clear, it probably will, so long as its important. These guys all seem to be exceptions to the basic rules of Nobody-ness.


**Probably going to get a lot of unnecessary arguing about different points I've brought up because I seem to be in unpopular opinion-ville with my way of looking at things, but... whatever. I don't feel like discussing it with anyone. I just wanted to let the original poster to know my two cents.**

[Xylek]

Right, although that was a very unique case... Master Xehanort's heart was removed from his body but it didn't go into the dark, it went into Terra. Interestingly, 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness' matches up well with this, as when Apprentice Xehanort lost his heart, 'his' Heartless seems to be a two-set masterpiece with the Guardian and all. Whether or not Master Xehanort inside was a Heartless all along or didn't become one until Terra's heart officially left his body is debatable, but either way he showed an interesting connection to the Heartless when they first began appearing in Radiant Garden.

As for this creating a Nobody... Kairi was never capable of falling into darkness herself, but her heart still left her body to be with Sora. So somewhere between the automatic assumption you 'lose your heart, it falls to darkness' and you get a Heartless and a Nobody... its actually a two-step process in my mind, and completely backwards. You lose your heart, you get a Nobody. It falls to darkness, you get a Heartless. If it doesn't fall, or cannot fall because of princess status, you're simply not going to get a Heartless, but you still have a Nobody. And just because your heart returns to your body, or any body, it doesn't mean your Nobody just goes away. Kairi restored Sora's heart in Hollow Bastion, afterall.** This very easily means that Namine appeared the moment her heart left her body to go to Sora, not when it left Sora's body to return to Kairi.

In any case... the Birth by Sleep Final Mix extra boss 'No Heart' = MX's Nobody, perhaps? And yet I do not doubt that Xemnas is 'Terranort's Nobody, not simply Terra's. With that thought in mind, the logistics of hearts leaving bodies and having to take into account when, where, why and how a Nobody takes on the form it does... well that's still in the works. Sora and Xehanort are very unique cases and while their experiences can be compared, there's just no comparing some very important details.**

**Why does Sora's Nobody look like Ventus and not Sora? If Sora doesn't have a Nobody that looks like him, why can't Xehanort have two? Roxas is very much Sora + Ven in the same way I believe Xemnas is Terra + Xehanort. Not just Terra, definitely not just Sora or Ven. Their hearts were one in their original bodies, and the body was influenced by both. The Nobody is tied to both hearts.

**I keep using these to tie things together, but... as it was, Sora's heart was returned to the body. Was Ven's heart returned to Sora's body? The imbalance ever after in Sora (anti!form) makes me assume most definitely not (and while Roxas rejoined with Sora at the start of KH2, that doesn't necessarily mean Ven's heart returned). It was perhaps at this early point, a matter of minutes after his creation, that Roxas changed to the mute state he was for so long, seemingly to entirely have forgotten his past, leading him to be so curious to pursue after information on Sora all because Sora's heart was rescued from the dark. (He may have even looked like Sora prior to Sora having his heart restored.)

This leads me to my final conclusion... the other Organization members remember their past excluding Xion (who isn't a Nobody proper), Roxas (who is missing his connection to Sora because Sora was restored), and Xemnas. Perhaps Xemnas is missing his full memory because Master Xehanort does indeed have a separate Nobody. Effectively he would have had one prior to his heart leaving A body again, not, but effectively, yes. Or it could also have something to do with the recent defeat of 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness'.

Whatever the reason, these things are all connected. And there's still one glaring flaw in all of it, so before I get jumped on about it:

Riku's heart left his body. But his body didn't fade away. He does not have a Nobody. It is not simply about the heart leaving the body and falling into darkness. However, Kairi's heart left her body and her body didn't fade away. She DOES have a Nobody. Neither have Heartless. Kairi because her heart is far from compatible with darkness and Riku... well, he's just lucky, isn't he? There was no heart inside Kairi, but... inside Riku... there was 'Ansem, Seeker of Darkness'. Riku's body was never alone without a heart inside it, while Kairi's was. This implies 'Ansem', Xehanort's Heartless counts as a heart.

o3o So... really, all cases are too different to draw exact conclusions on some points. If it can be made more clear, it probably will, so long as its important. These guys all seem to be exceptions to the basic rules of Nobody-ness.


**Probably going to get a lot of unnecessary arguing about different points I've brought up because I seem to be in unpopular opinion-ville with my way of looking at things, but... whatever. I don't feel like discussing it with anyone. I just wanted to let the original poster to know my two cents.**

damn you have it down to a science lol

[Razorwind Keyblade]

It would help if you used correct spelling and a little more detailed theory.

[Sora Keyblade no Yuusha]

As for this creating a Nobody... Kairi was never capable of falling into darkness herself, but her heart still left her body to be with Sora. So somewhere between the automatic assumption you 'lose your heart, it falls to darkness' and you get a Heartless and a Nobody... its actually a two-step process in my mind, and completely backwards. You lose your heart, you get a Nobody. It falls to darkness, you get a Heartless. If it doesn't fall, or cannot fall because of princess status, you're simply not going to get a Heartless, but you still have a Nobody. And just because your heart returns to your body, or any body, it doesn't mean your Nobody just goes away. Kairi restored Sora's heart in Hollow Bastion, afterall.** This very easily means that Namine appeared the moment her heart left her body to go to Sora, not when it left Sora's body to return to Kairi.

**I keep using these to tie things together, but... as it was, Sora's heart was returned to the body. Was Ven's heart returned to Sora's body? The imbalance ever after in Sora (anti!form) makes me assume most definitely not (and while Roxas rejoined with Sora at the start of KH2, that doesn't necessarily mean Ven's heart returned). It was perhaps at this early point, a matter of minutes after his creation, that Roxas changed to the mute state he was for so long, seemingly to entirely have forgotten his past, leading him to be so curious to pursue after information on Sora all because Sora's heart was rescued from the dark. (He may have even looked like Sora prior to Sora having his heart restored.)

as for Naminé appearing right after Kairi's heart went to hide inside Sora, we can assume that's not true, because a nobody is created from the body and soul both left after the heart falls into drkrness and becomes a heartless. therefore, since kairi's body didn't disappear, namine and roxas both used Sora's body as their shell to be created from.

as for Ven's heart, it is one with Sora's heart, so if the latter comes back, the other one will come back too.

since Master Xeahnort body's disappeared after his heart went into Terra, he might really have a nobody other than Xenmas.

[ssceles]

because a nobody is created from the body and soul both left after the heart falls into drkrness and becomes a heartless.

Please quote at least one example of the word 'soul' ever being used in relation to Kingdom Hearts, whether its from the in-game script or a Tetsuya Nomura interview. As far as I know, souls have never even been mentioned. And if it has, I'd really like to know about it.

I'm not entirely arguing about the Namine point. However, Namine was found in an entirely different location than Roxas and that's a crazy point to explain anyway. In fact, Namine was found in Castle Oblivion, a place above all others it'd make sense for Roxas to be found because of Ventus. But he wasn't. And by all means, perhaps, just maybe, he was there before Twilight Town and for the few minutes Sora was a Heartless and Roxas may have been more than we see of him, he left Castle Oblivion for some reason. It's plausible, anyway.

There's no solid proof to any theory about Namine being created prior to Kairi's recovery, so I'm not going to defend it. It was just another one of those possibilities. Afterall, she was found in a different location. I also have a feeling she was found first but I don't know if that was ever actually said or not. And even if she was found first, that could very well just be because they're in two different spots and Castle Oblivion was someplace the Organization was already searching through and Twilight Town just wasn't where they already were. *shrug*

But, no, really, for my own sake - souls? Really? Where? That's not something I should have missed.

Souls are one of those things everyone thought would be relevant to Birth by Sleep but it turned out otherwise. There's still a chance for it to be present in the series, but everyone hunted that down real good. If anyone ever had something to back up any theory regarding souls with the game's canon, everyone would have been on it by now. So... were souls mentioned anywhere?

[Sora Keyblade no Yuusha]

So... were souls mentioned anywhere?

yes, well, I played the japanese version, so I don't know if souls are kept in the English translation, but they are mentioned in the Secret Ansem's Reports regarding how a Nobody is created

[Obi-wan]

yes, well, I played the japanese version, so I don't know if souls are kept in the English translation, but they are mentioned in the Secret Ansem's Reports regarding how a Nobody is created

They are cause I remember it because I just read them on the ps2 right now.