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Who are the Remaining Lights and Darknesses?


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26 replies to this topic

#21 Dagesh Lene

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:41 PM

You might be right, but if we continue to assume that Vanitas wasn't the one brought to the future, then YX must have known that a Vanitas was already planned to join the True Org XIII. And I think that someone might have already decided which versions YX was to collect from the past (I once read somewhere that Ansem explained everything to all the SoD) so I can definitely see Terranort being taken by him, especially since we don't know his full story yet. We have lots of moments when he might have been taken by YX, especially when he was brought out of the Keyblade Graveyard by the X-Blade's explosion.

 

Someone definitely could have explained everything to Young Xehanort, except that the Ansem who visited him was the Ansem from before Kingdom Hearts 1 (at least, I'm pretty sure that's the Ansem who visited him; if I am mistaken, please tell me).  That means that Ansem would not have known what the future held yet, and, as far as I know, Ansem was the only one who contacted Young Xehanort before he set off on his mission.  This means that, if someone did tell Young Xehanort who to collect and when and where to find them, it would have been sometime during his mission while he was in the middle of searching for his other selves.

 

As far as Terra-Xehanort is concerned, I think that, if Terra-Xehanort is going to be one of the seekers of darkness, he would have been the one that Master Xehanort was talking about in Dream Drop Distance.  However, that would mean that Aqua isn't one of the seekers of darkness.  The only way that she could be is if she becomes the thirteenth darkness, which would mean that Riku and King Mickey would have to find her later than I am guessing they do.  This is all entirely possible, as I am expecting that I could be completely wrong.  However, based off of the few out of context cutscenes that we have seen in trailers so far, I am guessing that she is a seeker of darkness and that she is the one Master Xehanort was talking about in Dream Drop Distance, meaning that Terra-Xehanort can't be one of them.  However, like I said, it is entirely possible that I am completely wrong.


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 11 August 2018 - 06:49 PM.


#22 Richypiants02

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 12:46 PM

Someone definitely could have explained everything to Young Xehanort, except that the Ansem who visited him was the Ansem from before Kingdom Hearts 1 (at least, I'm pretty sure that's the Ansem who visited him; if I am mistaken, please tell me).  That means that Ansem would not have known what the future held yet, and, as far as I know, Ansem was the only one who contacted Young Xehanort before he set off on his mission.  This means that, if someone did tell Young Xehanort who to collect and when and where to find them, it would have been sometime during his mission while he was in the middle of searching for his other selves.

 

As far as Terra-Xehanort is concerned, I think that, if Terra-Xehanort is going to be one of the seekers of darkness, he would have been the one that Master Xehanort was talking about in Dream Drop Distance.  However, that would mean that Aqua isn't one of the seekers of darkness.  The only way that she could be is if she becomes the thirteenth darkness, which would mean that Riku and King Mickey would have to find her later than I am guessing they do.  This is all entirely possible, as I am expecting that I could be completely wrong.  However, based off of the few out of context cutscenes that we have seen in trailers so far, I am guessing that she is a seeker of darkness and that she is the one Master Xehanort was talking about in Dream Drop Distance, meaning that Terra-Xehanort can't be one of them.  However, like I said, it is entirely possible that I am completely wrong.

 

You're right about Ansem and I think too that someone contacted YX later during his search, as you said.

 

But I believe that your second assumption is wrong, because Terra-Xehanort would be from the past and so the present time's Terra would be untouched. Plus, we see Master Xehanort return and not Terra-Xehanort which was the one who divided himself between Ansem and Xemnas, so I assume that Terra is no longer inside Xehanort and that so the older one was referring to Aqua as the one which belongs to him,

 

I just don't feel like Demyx has the right personality to be a SoD and it'd be so unwise of Master Xehanort to not include Terra-Xehanort into the True Organization XIII. Yeah, Terra inside him could do resistance and it would be a risk, but a lesser one than including Marluxia who already betrayed the organization before.



#23 Dagesh Lene

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 05:15 PM

But I believe that your second assumption is wrong, because Terra-Xehanort would be from the past and so the present time's Terra would be untouched. Plus, we see Master Xehanort return and not Terra-Xehanort which was the one who divided himself between Ansem and Xemnas, so I assume that Terra is no longer inside Xehanort and that so the older one was referring to Aqua as the one which belongs to him,

 

I just don't feel like Demyx has the right personality to be a SoD and it'd be so unwise of Master Xehanort to not include Terra-Xehanort into the True Organization XIII. Yeah, Terra inside him could do resistance and it would be a risk, but a lesser one than including Marluxia who already betrayed the organization before.

 

The only problem is that Terra-Xehanort is Terra.  So far, the only character who we have seen a past version of is Xehanort himself (Young Xehanort).  I don't think that we will see any other past versions of characters besides him.  Otherwise, all of the seekers of darkness could be made up of just one person.  For example, we are not going to see both Braig and Xigbar as members of the seekers of darkness (as far as I know).  We are just going to see Braig (or Xigbar, if he is going by that name now).

 

To further back this up, I think that we will not see Riku-Ansem as a seeker of darkness due to a quote that Young Xehanort spoke to Riku in Dream Drop Distance, "We originally had our sights set on you.  But, you developed a certain...resistance to darkness.  So we did what the Keyblade did, and moved down the list."  Young Xehanort then talks about Roxas, saying that he was a worthy candidate.  This means that they must have decided to no longer make Riku a seeker of darkness back before Kingdom Hearts II, which means that they must have been planning to make him one up until the end of Chain of Memories when he finally defeated Ansem.  However, if they wanted to make him a vessel so badly, why not just travel to a time when he had succumbed to darkness (when he was Riku-Ansem) and make him a vessel then?  Well, there was technically already a Xehanort possessing him, Ansem, and he found a way to resist him.  If he found a way to resist him then, he probably would have found a way to resist him in the future, even if they took him from a time when he had succumbed to darkness.

 

After taking all of this into consideration, I think that we are left with two options: Either Terra has found a way to escape from Xehanort, which would mean that we won't see Terra-Xehanort as a vessel since, no matter what time they take Terra from, he will still find a way to escape him, or Terra-Xehanort is a seeker of darkness, which would mean that Terra couldn't find a way to escape from Xehanort and is still one of his vessels.


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 12 August 2018 - 05:21 PM.


#24 Richypiants02

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 04:14 PM

The only problem is that Terra-Xehanort is Terra.  So far, the only character who we have seen a past version of is Xehanort himself (Young Xehanort).  I don't think that we will see any other past versions of characters besides him.  Otherwise, all of the seekers of darkness could be made up of just one person.  For example, we are not going to see both Braig and Xigbar as members of the seekers of darkness (as far as I know).  We are just going to see Braig (or Xigbar, if he is going by that name now).

 

To further back this up, I think that we will not see Riku-Ansem as a seeker of darkness due to a quote that Young Xehanort spoke to Riku in Dream Drop Distance, "We originally had our sights set on you.  But, you developed a certain...resistance to darkness.  So we did what the Keyblade did, and moved down the list."  Young Xehanort then talks about Roxas, saying that he was a worthy candidate.  This means that they must have decided to no longer make Riku a seeker of darkness back before Kingdom Hearts II, which means that they must have been planning to make him one up until the end of Chain of Memories when he finally defeated Ansem.  However, if they wanted to make him a vessel so badly, why not just travel to a time when he had succumbed to darkness (when he was Riku-Ansem) and make him a vessel then?  Well, there was technically already a Xehanort possessing him, Ansem, and he found a way to resist him.  If he found a way to resist him then, he probably would have found a way to resist him in the future, even if they took him from a time when he had succumbed to darkness.

 

After taking all of this into consideration, I think that we are left with two options: Either Terra has found a way to escape from Xehanort, which would mean that we won't see Terra-Xehanort as a vessel since, no matter what time they take Terra from, he will still find a way to escape him, or Terra-Xehanort is a seeker of darkness, which would mean that Terra couldn't find a way to escape from Xehanort and is still one of his vessels.

 

I can see your point. But in the end Riku-Ansem would be the same as Ansem actually, and I don't think Nomura would want to put in the SoD two identical characters.

Still, YX knows that Terra surely didn't free himself from Xehanort before he created Ansem and Xemnas, so it wouldn't be a risk to bring him into the future because, as YX himself said, a person cannot change events destined to happen by using time travel. 

 

I'm trying to explain it more clearly. We (and the SoD too) know that Terra-Xehanort was in the past and that Terra was still inside him before the creation of Ansem and Xemnas. We know that SoD CAN'T change the past. So they have thought that Terra can't free himself while he is brought into the future because otherwise he would return as himself into the past and thus Terra-Xehanort would no longer exist, not being able to split into Ansem and Xemnas.

 

And don't forget that we have seen past versions of Ansem and Xemnas too in the SoD (which are both basically created by Terra possessed by Xehanort). Then, the Xigbar we see in the SoD is the present one and Braig is no longer "alive". And as I said before I don't think Nomura will put the same character twice in the SoD.

 

I know I'm stubborn lol and you can be right, but if that's so I can't explain why YX was in BBS time.



#25 Dagesh Lene

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:49 PM

And as I said before I don't think Nomura will put the same character twice in the SoD.

 

I agree, but I also think that Nomura will not have the same character appear twice at all, which means that I don't think that we will see both Terra-Xehanort as a seeker of darkness and Terra as a guardian of light.  Either we will see Terra-Xehanort as a seeker of darkness or we will see Terra as a guardian of light.  We will not see both (as far as I know).

 

I know I'm stubborn lol and you can be right, but if that's so I can't explain why YX was in BBS time.

 

I can be stubborn too.  Don't worry.  I suppose it's also possible that Young Xehanort appeared in that time only to be a secret boss and that's it.  Knowing Nomura, there is probably a bigger reason than that, but I suppose that it doesn't have to be connected to the overall plot in a big way other than to tease the villain of an upcoming game (Dream Drop Distance).  After all, it looks like he just fades into existence right before the fight, which might be a sign that he just arrived from the past, and then he fades away right after the fight, which might be a sign that he started traveling further into the future.  If this is true, then there is no bigger reason for him to be there other than as a secret boss and to tease the villain of Dream Drop Distance.


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 13 August 2018 - 05:55 PM.


#26 Richypiants02

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 08:23 AM

I agree, but I also think that Nomura will not have the same character appear twice at all, which means that I don't think that we will see both Terra-Xehanort as a seeker of darkness and Terra as a guardian of light.  Either we will see Terra-Xehanort as a seeker of darkness or we will see Terra as a guardian of light.  We will not see both (as far as I know).

 

 

I can be stubborn too.  Don't worry.  I suppose it's also possible that Young Xehanort appeared in that time only to be a secret boss and that's it.  Knowing Nomura, there is probably a bigger reason than that, but I suppose that it doesn't have to be connected to the overall plot in a big way other than to tease the villain of an upcoming game (Dream Drop Distance).  After all, it looks like he just fades into existence right before the fight, which might be a sign that he just arrived from the past, and then he fades away right after the fight, which might be a sign that he started traveling further into the future.  If this is true, then there is no bigger reason for him to be there other than as a secret boss and to tease the villain of Dream Drop Distance.

 

In the end, Terra and Terra-Xehanort are not the same person, as I think the first will have some of Eraqus's powers and the second uses the power of Darkness. And I think that Terra forced to face his own past body will be a really high climax for the series, as it has already been in his story's finale in BBS. Plus, we know the Lingering Will is still in the Keyblade Graveyard and thus will be in the final battle unless Terra actually returns as a person and I can definitely see a rematch between he and his past body.

 

Then there's another thing: we haven't ever seen Radiant Garden so far and I think it'll be the best world for Terra-Xehanort to appear because of his backstory.

 

I think we won't know anything for sure until the game releases, and we're almost 5 months away (if some trailer doesn't confirm something).



#27 Dagesh Lene

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 10:02 PM

In the end, Terra and Terra-Xehanort are not the same person, as I think the first will have some of Eraqus's powers and the second uses the power of Darkness.

 

I would have to both agree and disagree with you.  Terra-Xehanort is Xehanort in control of Terra, just like how Riku-Ansem was Ansem in control of Riku.  So, in a way, Terra-Xehanort is a different person, but in another way, he isn't because Terra is still there.  With that being said, once Ansem forced Riku's heart out of his own body and into the Realm of Darkness, he was no longer Riku-Ansem but was now just Ansem.  Riku still existed in the Realm of Darkness.  He even kept his appearance.  He just no longer had a body.  So, if Xehanort does the same thing to Terra, or if the way that Terra escapes Xehanort is by abandoning his own body, then I could see both Terra and Terra-Xehanort existing at the same time.

 

Now, in theory, whether Terra and Terra-Xehanort are the same person or not, Terra-Xehanort could still be brought to the future, right?  After all, both Master Xehanort and Young Xehanort exist at the same time.  Yes, I think that it is possible.  However, I think that the whole point of the seekers of darkness who are vessels becoming Xehanort is that they are Xehanort in the present, not in the past.  Nomura has hinted that the seekers of darkness who are vessels for Xehanort who have been revealed so far are not from the past but from the present.  As far as I can tell, Young Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas are the only ones who are from the past.  Because of that, if one of them escaped from Xehanort's control, I think that it would seem pointless if Xehanort could just go back in time and bring a version of them from the past who was still under his control.  I am not saying that it is impossible.  I think that it is possible.  I am just saying that I think it is unlikely.

 

Plus, we know the Lingering Will is still in the Keyblade Graveyard and thus will be in the final battle unless Terra actually returns as a person and I can definitely see a rematch between he and his past body.

 

I think that Lingering Will will only appear in the final battle if Terra is a seeker of darkness.  If Terra escapes from Xehanort's control, I think that he will reunite with Lingering Will and become a complete person again.  However, if only his heart escapes from Xehanort, or if Xehanort forces his heart out of his own body, then I think that his heart will enter Lingering Will and claim it as his temporary body until he can reclaim his body from Terra-Xehanort.

 

Then there's another thing: we haven't ever seen Radiant Garden so far and I think it'll be the best world for Terra-Xehanort to appear because of his backstory.

 

I agree that Radiant Garden would be a good world for Terra-Xehanort to appear in, but we don't even know if Radiant Garden is going to be a world you can visit.  Yes, we saw it in the E3 Showcase trailer during the cutscene when Ienzo was talking with Sora over that communicator, but we saw Radiant Garden in cutscenes in Dream Drop Distance too, and we didn't get to visit it in that game.  So, it's possible that Radiant Garden may just be seen in cutscenes once again in Kingdom Hearts III.

 

I think we won't know anything for sure until the game releases, and we're almost 5 months away (if some trailer doesn't confirm something).

 

True.  I won't be surprised at all if I am proven to be 100% wrong about everything that I have theorized about for Kingdom Hearts III.  No one can understand the mind of Nomura except Nomura himself.


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 14 August 2018 - 10:08 PM.