• Log in with Twitter Log In with Google
  •    Sign In   
  • Create Account

You are viewing the forum as a guest. For a better experience, please sign in or create an account.

Forum Search New Content Forum Rules Boards Status Updates Fan-made Images Fan-made Videos Livestreams Chatroom
Photo

Who are the Remaining Lights and Darknesses?


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 02:46 AM

Here is long and way too over thought guess at who the remaining guardians of light and seekers of darkness are:

 

So far, we have ten confirmed seekers of darkness:

 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

 

We haven't actually gotten an official confirmation (as far as I know) as to who any of the guardians of light are, but I think we are able to make a good guess going off of what has been revealed so far.

 

When King Mickey listed off Keyblade wielders as guardians of light, he listed himself, Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, and Ventus.  However, Master Xehanort stated that two of the people on his list belonged to him now.  Sora ended up being saved, but, assuming that King Mickey was paying attention, he would know that someone on his list was one of the seekers of darkness, making his list of Keyblade wielders go from six to five.  However, in the Dream Drop Distance's secret ending, King Mickey says that they only need one more guardian of light.  So, he must count Lea as one of the Keyblade wielders now, and since Kairi was hinted to be the seventh guardian of light right after this, I think that it's safe to assume who most of the guardians of light will be:

 

1.   King Mickey

2.   Sora

3.   Riku

4.   Kairi

5.   Lea/Axel

 

Since we do not yet know the fates of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus (since none of their fates have been confirmed), I don't think we can for sure put them on either of the lists yet (if they will appear on either of the lists at all), even if King Mickey is confident that two of them will be guardians of light.

 

So, that leaves three seekers of darkness and two guardians of light that have yet to be revealed.  The next step is to find out which original characters have not been put on either list yet, and they are:

 

1.   Terra

2.   Aqua

3.   Ventus

4.   Roxas

5.   Namine

6.   Xion

7.   Demyx

8.   Riku Replica

9.   Ansem the Wise

10. Master Eraqus

11. Lingering Will

12. Ira

13. Invi

14. Aced

15. Gula

16. Ava

17. Luxu

18. Master of Masters

19. Ephemer

20. Skuld

21. Brain

22. Player

 

Let's start to narrow down this list.  First of all, even though I think that it is a possibility that the characters from Union χ[cross] and Back Cover will make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts III, especially since both Ventus and Lauriam (even though he hasn't officially been confirmed to be Marluxia's human form, I am counting him as Marluxia's human form) exist in both Union χ[cross] and Kingdom Hearts III, I will not include them in either list simply because I expect the missing members on each list to be characters that Sora and his friends have encountered on their many journeys.  So, now our list includes:

 

1.   Terra
2.   Aqua
3.   Ventus
4.   Roxas
5.   Namine
6.   Xion
7.   Demyx
8.   Riku Replica
9.   Ansem the Wise
10. Master Eraqus
11. Lingering Will
 
Let's start with the seekers of darkness.  We know that the thirteenth seeker of darkness is still missing, so we only need to find out who two of the three are for now.  We also know that one of those two is Terra, Aqua, or Ventus, so, the other spot must be one of these characters:
 
1.   Roxas
2.   Namine
3.   Xion
4.   Demyx
5.   Riku Replica
6.   Ansem the Wise
7.   Master Eraqus
8.   Lingering Will

 

Thanks to the trailers, it seems that both Roxas and Riku Replica have not been made seekers of darkness by the beginning of Kingdom Hearts III, meaning that if either of them is going to be a seeker of darkness, they will be the thirteenth darkness.  However, since we are not guessing who the thirteenth darkness will be yet, they will not be considered for the twelfth darkness.  I think that it is also safe to assume that Namine and Xion, having become a part of Kairi's and Sora's hearts, will not be considered for the twelfth darkness either.  Finally, I think it is safe to take Master Eraqus off the list since he died in Birth by Sleep (although he is hinted to be in Terra's heart).  So, that leaves us with:

 

1.   Demyx
2.   Ansem the Wise
3.   Lingering Will
 
After thinking it over, I think that Demyx will most likely be the twelfth darkness since all of the members of Organization XIII who have not been shown in their human forms have been part of the seekers of darkness.  So, now we just need to decide whether Terra, Aqua, or Ventus will be the eleventh darkness.
 
So far, it hasn't been confirmed if Aqua is a seeker of darkness or not.  However, thanks to interviews with Nomura, it sounds as if the Aqua we see revealed in the Frozen trailer is indeed the real Aqua, and since silver hair and yellow eyes mean Xehanort, I am guessing that Aqua is indeed one of the seekers of darkness.  However, now the question remains: is she the eleventh darkness or the thirteenth darkness?
 
I think that Aqua is the eleventh darkness.  Here's why: In the E3 Showcase trailer, we see Riku and King Mickey return to Mysterious Tower, meaning that they must have finished their mission in the Realm of Darkness, which also means that they must have seen Aqua corrupted by darkness by this point.  When Riku and King Mickey return, Sora is still wearing his Kingdom Hearts II outfit, which means that he hasn't received his new outfit yet.  However, we have already seen Young Xehanort telling Sora that they are missing a darkness that they must reclaim in the Toy Story trailer, and we have seen both Ansem and Xemnas telling Sora that nothing would make them happier than Roxas' return in the E3 Showcase trailer.  In both of these scenes, Sora is wearing his new outfit, which means that the thirteenth darkness is still missing after Sora gets his new outfit.  This also means that when Riku and King Mickey return from the Realm of Darkness, the thirteenth darkness is still missing since Sora hadn't received his new outfit at that time.  If the thirteenth darkness is still missing when Riku and King Mickey return from the Realm of Darkness, and if Aqua is indeed a seeker of darkness by that point, she can't be the thirteenth darkness and therefore must be the eleventh darkness (I hope I made my point clear enough and didn't over explain my point).
 
So, here are the seekers of darkness so far:
 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

 

So, that leaves the thirteenth darkness.  Here is the list of characters again who do not belong to either list (not including the Union χ[cross] and Back Cover characters):

 

1.   Terra
2.   Ventus
3.   Roxas
4.   Namine
5.   Xion
6.   Riku Replica
7.   Ansem the Wise
8.   Master Eraqus
9.   Lingering Will
 
Since I think that Aqua was one of the twelve seekers of darkness present at the end of Dream Drop Distance in Where Nothing Gathers, that means that Terra is no longer a seeker of darkness (since Master Xehanort said that only one other person on King Mickey's list other than Sora belonged to him).  I think that also excludes Lingering Will from being a seeker of darkness or a separate character at all since Terra probably reunited with Lingering Will to become a complete person again.  I also think that Master Eraqus (although he may have helped Terra free himself from Xehanort's control from within Terra's heart) will stay dead, which excludes him from both lists.  Also, if Riku Replica hasn't been made a vessel for Xehanort yet, he probably never will be (a weak argument, I know, but if he was in the Realm of Darkness, just like Aqua was, and made it back to the Realm of Light without becoming one of the darknesses, I doubt Xehanort has any interest in him), which takes him off the list.  Namine is part of Kairi's heart, and I think that if the thirteenth darkness will be tied to anyone's heart, it will be to Sora's heart.  Sora didn't know Xion, so he wouldn't be shocked to see her as a seeker of darkness.  Plus, no one remembers Xion (although Lea/Axel might), so unless everyone remembers her once she returns, the heroes won't be shocked to see her as a seeker of darkness.  It could be Ansem the Wise, but, once again, if Aqua was made a seeker of darkness while she was in the Realm of Darkness, and if the seekers of darkness are still looking for their thirteenth member, Ansem the Wise must not be important to Xehanort since he was in the Realm of Darkness with Aqua.  So, that leaves us with Ventus and Roxas.
 
I think it could be either Ventus or Roxas.  If Aqua is indeed a seeker of darkness, Xehanort would have access to Ventus, someone he's been after since the days of the original Organization XIII.  However, if Aqua was already a seeker of darkness before the end of Dream Drop Distance like I think she was, then why didn't Xehanort use her to find Ventus and make him the thirteenth darkness instead of going on a crazy mission to make Sora the thirteenth darkness?  Maybe Aqua couldn't get Ventus because Terra saved him, and if Terra saved him, that must mean that Roxas will be the thirteenth seeker of darkness.
 
And so, I guess that the seekers of darkness will be:
 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

13. Roxas

 
So, now on to the guardians of light.  These won't take nearly as long as I already have a guess at who one of the two unknown guardians will be: Terra.  If Terra is no longer a seeker of darkness, he will probably become a guardian of light.  So that leaves the final guardian of light.  Here is the list of characters who are not part of either group yet:
 
1.   Ventus
2.   Namine
3.   Xion
4.   Riku Replica
5.   Ansem the Wise

 

I don't think that either Namine or Ansem the Wise will be a guardian of light since neither of them has been shown to wield a Keyblade (although Namine might be able to since Kairi can).  I also don't think that Riku Replica will be a guardian of light since I think that he will continue to rely on the power of darkness.  That leaves us with Ventus and Xion, and of the two, I think that Ventus will be the final guardian of light.  If Terra saves Ventus from Castle Oblivion, like I guessed earlier, both Terra and Ventus would get to repay Aqua for saving them in Birth by Sleep by saving her this time.

 

And so, my final prediction is that the seven guardians of light will be:

 

1.   King Mickey

2.   Sora

3.   Riku

4.   Kairi

5.   Lea/Axel

6.   Terra

7.   Ventus

 

And that the thirteen seekers of darkness will be:

 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

13. Roxas

 

But this is just my best guess.  What do you guys think?


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 25 June 2018 - 09:54 PM.


#2 ienzo628

ienzo628
  • Member
  • 251 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:37 AM

I just want to know who the previous thirteen Darkness were that Master Xehanort referred to in the Round Room during his confrontation with King Mickey and Riku.



#3 Isaix

Isaix

    The Luna Diviner

  • Member
  • 2,701 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:05 AM

Wait Marluxia is confirmed as a Seekers of darkness? I though he had an other aganda,he doesn't have the yellow eyes if I remember right

#4 Doco56

Doco56
  • Member
  • 75 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

I think this list is mostly solid. However, I'd suggest considering Terra-Xehanort for a Seeker. It'd be odd if he's not one of the seekers. Demyx is still unknown as well, I'm personally of the opinion that he's too nice to be made a seeker. Weak, I know, but eh. I'm also sure that Aqua will be saved and therefore won't be part of the final set of seekers.

Another thing: I keep seeing that people think the bit where Riku and Mickey come back to Yen Sid's tower is after they've been to the RoD but I think it's likely it's just like a check-in to update Yen Sid of their progress and they still haven't found a way in. It seems too early in the game for them to have been in and out already, as they mentioned it's extremely difficult to get in and out.

#5 Wyatt Tyson

Wyatt Tyson
  • Member
  • 71 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:00 AM

Wait Marluxia is confirmed as a Seekers of darkness? I though he had an other aganda,he doesn't have the yellow eyes if I remember right


Yes it's yellow now. E3 trailer shows. Stop asking this repeatedly

I think this list is mostly solid. However, I'd suggest considering Terra-Xehanort for a Seeker. It'd be odd if he's not one of the seekers. Demyx is still unknown as well, I'm personally of the opinion that he's too nice to be made a seeker. Weak, I know, but eh. I'm also sure that Aqua will be saved and therefore won't be part of the final set of seekers.
Another thing: I keep seeing that people think the bit where Riku and Mickey come back to Yen Sid's tower is after they've been to the RoD but I think it's likely it's just like a check-in to update Yen Sid of their progress and they still haven't found a way in. It seems too early in the game for them to have been in and out already, as they mentioned it's extremely difficult to get in and out.


This whole post reeks of denial

#6 Hero of Winds

Hero of Winds

    You Ever Eat A Raw ChuChu?

  • Member
  • 4,343 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

13 Darkness:

1. Master Xehanort

2. Young Xehanort

3. Xemnas

4. Ansem

5. Braig

6. Isa

7. Vanitas

8. Luxord

9. Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Demyx

12. Terra-Nort

13. Unannounced New Character

 

Guardians of Light: 

1. King Mickey

2. Riku

3. Kairi

4. Lea

5. Aqua

6. Ventus

7. Roxas (or Terra's Lingering Will but I personally believe Terra doesn't deserve this position regardless of how he shows up)

 

Sora will not be an actual Guardian of Light because it will take away from his forced and not so obvious Ordinary character description.

 

I chose Roxas in his stead, as Sora will win out over Xehanort when he frees Roxas. Nomura said Aqua could be saved due to the player's efforts. So I believe she will also be in the Lights and not the Darknesses.

 

 

Yes it's yellow now. E3 trailer shows. Stop asking this repeatedly
 

Don't be this guy. Marluxia's Yellow Eyes were added into a small second of the Japanese Trailer. Most people only watched the English Trailers from the E3 set.


Edited by Hero of Winds, 25 June 2018 - 10:03 AM.


#7 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:12 PM

Wait Marluxia is confirmed as a Seekers of darkness? I though he had an other aganda,he doesn't have the yellow eyes if I remember right

 

He only appeared in the Japanese version of the Pirates of the Caribbean trailer for a brief moment.  You can see him at the 2:24 mark:

 


I think this list is mostly solid. However, I'd suggest considering Terra-Xehanort for a Seeker. It'd be odd if he's not one of the seekers. Demyx is still unknown as well, I'm personally of the opinion that he's too nice to be made a seeker. Weak, I know, but eh. I'm also sure that Aqua will be saved and therefore won't be part of the final set of seekers.

Another thing: I keep seeing that people think the bit where Riku and Mickey come back to Yen Sid's tower is after they've been to the RoD but I think it's likely it's just like a check-in to update Yen Sid of their progress and they still haven't found a way in. It seems too early in the game for them to have been in and out already, as they mentioned it's extremely difficult to get in and out.

 

I think you bring up some good points, but keep in mind that Sora is nice too, and Xehanort almost made him his vessel.  So, it doesn't matter how nice you are, you can still be made a vessel, which means that Demyx could still be made one too.  Also, while Nomura did say that we can save Aqua, he never said when, and I believe that when we will be able to save her is at the very end of the game during the final battle, which means that she can still be one of the seekers of darkness.  You also bring up a good point that Riku and King Mickey may not have actually gotten into the Realm of Darkness yet, but I doubt they would return to Master Yen Sid just to tell him that they can't find a way in.  I'm sure that they will keep trying until they do and then return to Master Yen Sid once they finish their mission there.  As for Terra, I think that they have actually teased Terra's escape from Xehanort's control in Birth by Sleep's secret ending:

 

Xehanort: "Darkness rules your heart--it gives me control.  Muscle and sinew that once obeyed you now rebels against you.  How you can remain here at all confounds the mind."

Terra: "It's still my heart.  You think you can just come in and take over?  I'm not gonna sit by and let that happen."

Xehanort: "Hmph.  Don't even entertain any notions of escaping me, boy.  In the end, your heart will be engulfed by mine forever."

Terra: "Wrong.  You're gonna get shown the door, old man."

Xehanort: "As I recall, you couldn't even handle your own darkness.  How, then, will you triumph over mine?"

Terra: "You'll find out soon enough."


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 25 June 2018 - 09:51 PM.


#8 Tyranto Rex

Tyranto Rex
  • Member
  • 212 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 01:02 PM

I feel like they are gonna surprise us with Xion and she is either gonna be a seeker or a guardian.



#9 Alan Smithee

Alan Smithee
  • Member
  • 871 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 06:33 PM

However, I'd suggest considering Terra-Xehanort for a Seeker. It'd be odd if he's not one of the seekers.

 

Given both his Heartless and his Nobody already being there, that quota seems filled enough.

 

Especially in the former's case; Ansem SOD is practically Terranort 2.0 in terms of portrayals. (Guardian? Check. Richard Epcar? Check. "I <3 teh Darkness!" speeches? Check.)



#10 Crossχ

Crossχ

    Yeezus

  • Member
  • 19 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 11:43 AM

I think this list is mostly solid. However, I'd suggest considering Terra-Xehanort for a Seeker. It'd be odd if he's not one of the seekers. Demyx is still unknown as well, I'm personally of the opinion that he's too nice to be made a seeker. Weak, I know, but eh. I'm also sure that Aqua will be saved and therefore won't be part of the final set of seekers.

 

this. it's more that demyx is too lazy for this. it's a miracle that he even became a nobody in the first place, let alone one that's that strong (and annoying). idk, maybe i'm biased.

 

I think you bring up some good points, but keep in mind that Sora is nice too, and Xehanort almost made him his vessel.  So, it doesn't matter how nice you are, you can still be made a vessel, which means that Demyx could still be made one too.

 

even if demyx was a more viable choice, terranort already has xehanort's heart inside of him. no hassle needed there.

 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

13. Roxas

 

other than that, it's a pretty good list. even if the roxas prediction turns out to be wrong, it's still possible that he'll be a light. xemnas said that "nothing would please us more than roxas' return." this implies that he's needed for their plan and will eventually become either a darkness or light. if he turns out to be a light? then repliku will probably take his place. i mean, there's a reason that he was brought back either way.

 

Xehanort: "Darkness rules your heart--it gives me control.  Muscle and sinew that once obeyed you now rebels against you.  How you can remain here at all confounds the mind."

Terra: "It's still my heart.  You think you can just come in and take over?  I'm not gonna sit by and let that happen."

Xehanort: "Hmph.  Don't even entertain any notions of escaping me, boy.  In the end, your heart will be engulfed by mine forever."

Terra: "Wrong.  You're gonna get shown the door, old man."

Xehanort: "As I recall, you couldn't even handle your own darkness.  How, then, will you triumph over mine?"

Terra: "You'll find out soon enough."

 

you bring up a good point here. it could involve eraqus' heart influencing terra. a question though, are we ever sure where terra's heart actually is post-apprentice xehanort? if it's still out there, it could go back into lingering will. it's technically a heart, a soul, and a body(-ish).



#11 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 12:11 AM

other than that, it's a pretty good list. even if the roxas prediction turns out to be wrong, it's still possible that he'll be a light. xemnas said that "nothing would please us more than roxas' return." this implies that he's needed for their plan and will eventually become either a darkness or light. if he turns out to be a light? then repliku will probably take his place. i mean, there's a reason that he was brought back either way.

 

I hadn't thought of that, and you're right.  They didn't say that nothing would please them more than Roxas' return because then they could make Roxas a seeker of darkness.  They just said that nothing would please them more than his return.  So, they definitely could have been referring to the fact that they still need guardians of light.  However, in the Orchestra trailer, Xemnas says, "How do you expect to bring Roxas back when he should never have existed in the first place?  There is only one way to accomplish it...Sora, are you finally going to call upon the darkness?"  To me, this sounds like Xemnas is still trying to urge Sora to give in to the darkness, which makes me think that they still need one more seeker of darkness.  But hey, I may be wrong.

 

you bring up a good point here. it could involve eraqus' heart influencing terra. a question though, are we ever sure where terra's heart actually is post-apprentice xehanort? if it's still out there, it could go back into lingering will. it's technically a heart, a soul, and a body(-ish).

 

I don't think we do know where Terra's heart is post-Apprentice Xehanort.  In fact, Xehanort returning as Master Xehanort and not Apprentice Xehanort may be more evidence to that he no longer is in control of Terra's heart.  Also, I actually think that there is a good possibility of Lingering Will becoming a part of Terra again.  It's why I decided not to include Lingering Will as his own character as I was trying to decide who would be the remaining guardians of light and seekers of darkness.



#12 Crossχ

Crossχ

    Yeezus

  • Member
  • 19 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 12:26 AM

However, in the Orchestra trailer, Xemnas says, "How do you expect to bring Roxas back when he should never have existed in the first place?  There is only one way to accomplish it...Sora, are you finally going to call upon the darkness?"  To me, this sounds like Xemnas is still trying to urge Sora to give in to the darkness, which makes me think that they still need one more seeker of darkness.  But hey, I may be wrong.

1. - what's the method that xemnas is referring to? the method that was hinted at in the e3 showcase trailer was that all of roxas' data would be taken from the copied twilight town.

2. - now that i think about it, roxas is probably going to be a seeker of darkness. young xehanort pointed out that he would have been a worthy candidate in ddd.


Edited by Crossχ, 28 June 2018 - 12:28 AM.


#13 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 12:36 AM

1. - what's the method that xemnas is referring to? the method that was hinted at in the e3 showcase trailer was that all of roxas' data would be taken from the copied twilight town.

 

When I look at everything from that scene that has been revealed in trailers so far, it seems to me that Sora expresses his desire to bring Roxas back to Ansem and Xemnas, and they tell him that the only way to do so is to call upon the darkness.  However, so that he would not have to use the darkness, Sora recalls that Roxas existed in the other Twilight Town.  Ansem then appears to discourage this thought by telling him that the other Twilight Town is just data.  However, Sora tries to bring Roxas back that way anyway.  That's what I can piece together anyway.  So, it seems as though Ansem and Xemnas want Sora to submit to the darkness, while Sora is trying every possible way to bring Roxas back that he can think of without using the darkness.



#14 Crossχ

Crossχ

    Yeezus

  • Member
  • 19 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 12:47 AM

When I look at everything from that scene that has been revealed in trailers so far, it seems to me that Sora expresses his desire to bring Roxas back to Ansem and Xemnas, and they tell him that the only way to do so is to call upon the darkness.  However, so that he would not have to use the darkness, Sora recalls that Roxas existed in the other Twilight Town.  Ansem then appears to discourage this thought by telling him that the other Twilight Town is just data.  However, Sora tries to bring Roxas back that way anyway.  That's what I can piece together anyway.  So, it seems as though Ansem and Xemnas want Sora to submit to the darkness, while Sora is trying every possible way to bring Roxas back that he can think of without using the darkness.

alright, hold up. why would they tease sora succumbing to darkness, and then completely abandon that plot thread just so sora can bring back another roxas? we don't even know the method that xemnas was referring to involving darkness. that just seems like bad storytelling, at least without context. or, and this might seem really crazy, what if there ended up being two different roxases? roxii? roxii. one data-roxas who becomes a seeker of light, and the actual roxas in sora's heart who is a seeker of darkness. you already said that they implied that they needed a seeker of darkness in the form of sora, why not use roxas? data-roxas would technically have the heart needed to be a seeker of light as seen in re:coded.

idk, maybe this is just too insane to be true.



#15 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 01:05 AM

alright, hold up. why would they tease sora succumbing to darkness, and then completely abandon that plot thread just so sora can bring back another roxas? we don't even know the method that xemnas was referring to involving darkness. that just seems like bad storytelling, at least without context. or, and this might seem really crazy, what if there ended up being two different roxases? roxii? roxii. one data-roxas who becomes a seeker of light, and the actual roxas in sora's heart who is a seeker of darkness. you already said that they implied that they needed a seeker of darkness in the form of sora, why not use roxas? data-roxas would technically have the heart needed to be a seeker of light as seen in re:coded.

idk, maybe this is just too insane to be true.

 

If my guess is correct, I don't think that they are teasing Sora succumbing to darkness and then completely abandoning that plot thread.  To me, it sounds like Sora is just trying to avoid having to succumb to the darkness by trying to find another way to bring Roxas back.  If I were to make a guess, finding Data-Roxas is going to fail, and Sora is going to have to decide whether or not to succumb to darkness in order to bring Roxas back.

 

As far as what method Xemnas was referring to, I think he meant that in order to bring Roxas back, Sora would have to become a Heartless again.  Maybe this is what was meant by Ansem and Xemnas in the Pirates of the Caribbean trailer when they said to Sora, "Now, set your heart free."  After all, this is what Axel was trying to accomplish in Kingdom Hearts II.  He hoped that kidnapping Kairi would result in Sora becoming a Heartless again so that Roxas would return.



#16 Richypiants02

Richypiants02
  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:58 AM

Here is long and way too over thought guess at who the remaining guardians of light and seekers of darkness are:

 

So far, we have ten confirmed seekers of darkness:

 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

 

We haven't actually gotten an official confirmation (as far as I know) as to who any of the guardians of light are, but I think we are able to make a good guess going off of what has been revealed so far.

 

When King Mickey listed off Keyblade wielders as guardians of light, he listed himself, Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, and Ventus.  However, Master Xehanort stated that two of the people on his list belonged to him now.  Sora ended up being saved, but, assuming that King Mickey was paying attention, he would know that someone on his list was one of the seekers of darkness, making his list of Keyblade wielders go from six to five.  However, in the Dream Drop Distance's secret ending, King Mickey says that they only need one more guardian of light.  So, he must count Lea as one of the Keyblade wielders now, and since Kairi was hinted to be the seventh guardian of light right after this, I think that it's safe to assume who most of the guardians of light will be:

 

1.   King Mickey

2.   Sora

3.   Riku

4.   Kairi

5.   Lea/Axel

 

Since we do not yet know the fates of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus (since none of their fates have been confirmed), I don't think we can for sure put them on either of the lists yet (if they will appear on either of the lists at all), even if King Mickey is confident that two of them will be guardians of light.

 

So, that leaves three seekers of darkness and two guardians of light that have yet to be revealed.  The next step is to find out which original characters have not been put on either list yet, and they are:

 

1.   Terra

2.   Aqua

3.   Ventus

4.   Roxas

5.   Namine

6.   Xion

7.   Demyx

8.   Riku Replica

9.   Ansem the Wise

10. Master Eraqus

11. Lingering Will

12. Ira

13. Invi

14. Aced

15. Gula

16. Ava

17. Luxu

18. Master of Masters

19. Ephemer

20. Skuld

21. Brain

22. Player

 

Let's start to narrow down this list.  First of all, even though I think that it is a possibility that the characters from Union χ[cross] and Back Cover will make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts III, especially since both Ventus and Lauriam (even though he hasn't officially been confirmed to be Marluxia's human form, I am counting him as Marluxia's human form) exist in both Union χ[cross] and Kingdom Hearts III, I will not include them in either list simply because I expect the missing members on each list to be characters that Sora and his friends have encountered on their many journeys.  So, now our list includes:

 

1.   Terra
2.   Aqua
3.   Ventus
4.   Roxas
5.   Namine
6.   Xion
7.   Demyx
8.   Riku Replica
9.   Ansem the Wise
10. Master Eraqus
11. Lingering Will
 
Let's start with the seekers of darkness.  We know that the thirteenth seeker of darkness is still missing, so we only need to find out who two of the three are for now.  We also know that one of those two is Terra, Aqua, or Ventus, so, the other spot must be one of these characters:
 
1.   Roxas
2.   Namine
3.   Xion
4.   Demyx
5.   Riku Replica
6.   Ansem the Wise
7.   Master Eraqus
8.   Lingering Will

 

Thanks to the trailers, it seems that both Roxas and Riku Replica have not been made seekers of darkness by the beginning of Kingdom Hearts III, meaning that if either of them is going to be a seeker of darkness, they will be the thirteenth darkness.  However, since we are not guessing who the thirteenth darkness will be yet, they will not be considered for the twelfth darkness.  I think that it is also safe to assume that Namine and Xion, having become a part of Kairi's and Sora's hearts, will not be considered for the twelfth darkness either.  Finally, I think it is safe to take Master Eraqus off the list since he died in Birth by Sleep (although he is hinted to be in Terra's heart).  So, that leaves us with:

 

1.   Demyx
2.   Ansem the Wise
3.   Lingering Will
 
After thinking it over, I think that Demyx will most likely be the twelfth darkness since all of the members of Organization XIII who have not been shown in their human forms have been part of the seekers of darkness.  So, now we just need to decide whether Terra, Aqua, or Ventus will be the eleventh darkness.
 
So far, it hasn't been confirmed if Aqua is a seeker of darkness or not.  However, thanks to interviews with Nomura, it sounds as if the Aqua we see revealed in the Frozen trailer is indeed the real Aqua, and since silver hair and yellow eyes mean Xehanort, I am guessing that Aqua is indeed one of the seekers of darkness.  However, now the question remains: is she the eleventh darkness or the thirteenth darkness?
 
I think that Aqua is the eleventh darkness.  Here's why: In the E3 Showcase trailer, we see Riku and King Mickey return to Mysterious Tower, meaning that they must have finished their mission in the Realm of Darkness, which also means that they must have seen Aqua corrupted by darkness by this point.  When Riku and King Mickey return, Sora is still wearing his Kingdom Hearts II outfit, which means that he hasn't received his new outfit yet.  However, we have already seen Young Xehanort telling Sora that they are missing a darkness that they must reclaim in the Toy Story trailer, and we have seen both Ansem and Xemnas telling Sora that nothing would make them happier than Roxas' return in the E3 Showcase trailer.  In both of these scenes, Sora is wearing his new outfit, which means that the thirteenth darkness is still missing after Sora gets his new outfit.  This also means that when Riku and King Mickey return from the Realm of Darkness, the thirteenth darkness is still missing since Sora hadn't received his new outfit at that time.  If the thirteenth darkness is still missing when Riku and King Mickey return from the Realm of Darkness, and if Aqua is indeed a seeker of darkness by that point, she can't be the thirteenth darkness and therefore must be the eleventh darkness (I hope I made my point clear enough and didn't over explain my point).
 
So, here are the seekers of darkness so far:
 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

 

So, that leaves the thirteenth darkness.  Here is the list of characters again who do not belong to either list (not including the Union χ[cross] and Back Cover characters):

 

1.   Terra
2.   Ventus
3.   Roxas
4.   Namine
5.   Xion
6.   Riku Replica
7.   Ansem the Wise
8.   Master Eraqus
9.   Lingering Will
 
Since I think that Aqua was one of the twelve seekers of darkness present at the end of Dream Drop Distance in Where Nothing Gathers, that means that Terra is no longer a seeker of darkness (since Master Xehanort said that only one other person on King Mickey's list other than Sora belonged to him).  I think that also excludes Lingering Will from being a seeker of darkness or a separate character at all since Terra probably reunited with Lingering Will to become a complete person again.  I also think that Master Eraqus (although he may have helped Terra free himself from Xehanort's control from within Terra's heart) will stay dead, which excludes him from both lists.  Also, if Riku Replica hasn't been made a vessel for Xehanort yet, he probably never will be (a weak argument, I know, but if he was in the Realm of Darkness, just like Aqua was, and made it back to the Realm of Light without becoming one of the darknesses, I doubt Xehanort has any interest in him), which takes him off the list.  Namine is part of Kairi's heart, and I think that if the thirteenth darkness will be tied to anyone's heart, it will be to Sora's heart.  Sora didn't know Xion, so he wouldn't be shocked to see her as a seeker of darkness.  Plus, no one remembers Xion (although Lea/Axel might), so unless everyone remembers her once she returns, the heroes won't be shocked to see her as a seeker of darkness.  It could be Ansem the Wise, but, once again, if Aqua was made a seeker of darkness while she was in the Realm of Darkness, and if the seekers of darkness are still looking for their thirteenth member, Ansem the Wise must not be important to Xehanort since he was in the Realm of Darkness with Aqua.  So, that leaves us with Ventus and Roxas.
 
I think it could be either Ventus or Roxas.  If Aqua is indeed a seeker of darkness, Xehanort would have access to Ventus, someone he's been after since the days of the original Organization XIII.  However, if Aqua was already a seeker of darkness before the end of Dream Drop Distance like I think she was, then why didn't Xehanort use her to find Ventus and make him the thirteenth darkness instead of going on a crazy mission to make Sora the thirteenth darkness?  Maybe Aqua couldn't get Ventus because Terra saved him, and if Terra saved him, that must mean that Roxas will be the thirteenth seeker of darkness.
 
And so, I guess that the seekers of darkness will be:
 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

13. Roxas

 
So, now on to the guardians of light.  These won't take nearly as long as I already have a guess at who one of the two unknown guardians will be: Terra.  If Terra is no longer a seeker of darkness, he will probably become a guardian of light.  So that leaves the final guardian of light.  Here is the list of characters who are not part of either group yet:
 
1.   Ventus
2.   Namine
3.   Xion
4.   Riku Replica
5.   Ansem the Wise

 

I don't think that either Namine or Ansem the Wise will be a guardian of light since neither of them has been shown to wield a Keyblade (although Namine might be able to since Kairi can).  I also don't think that Riku Replica will be a guardian of light since I think that he will continue to rely on the power of darkness.  That leaves us with Ventus and Xion, and of the two, I think that Ventus will be the final guardian of light.  If Terra saves Ventus from Castle Oblivion, like I guessed earlier, both Terra and Ventus would get to repay Aqua for saving them in Birth by Sleep by saving her this time.

 

And so, my final prediction is that the seven guardians of light will be:

 

1.   King Mickey

2.   Sora

3.   Riku

4.   Kairi

5.   Lea/Axel

6.   Terra

7.   Ventus

 

And that the thirteen seekers of darkness will be:

 

1.   Master Xehanort

2.   Young Xehanort

3.   Vanitas

4.   Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

5.   Xemnas

6.   Braig/Xigbar

7.   Isa/Saix

8.   Luxord

9.   Marluxia

10. Larxene

11. Aqua

12. Demyx

13. Roxas

 

But this is just my best guess.  What do you guys think?

 

I might agree with some of your theories BUT you're missing something important...

Remember that YX was in the BBS timeline to find someone to bring him into the future, as confirmed by his optional boss battle. I think the one he might have been searching was Terra-Xehanort, which would explain why the latter ends up being in Radiant Garden in the Last Episode from the Keyblade Graveyard, or at least why he's got amnesia when he's found by Ansem the Wise.



#17 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:03 PM

I might agree with some of your theories BUT you're missing something important...

Remember that YX was in the BBS timeline to find someone to bring him into the future, as confirmed by his optional boss battle. I think the one he might have been searching was Terra-Xehanort, which would explain why the latter ends up being in Radiant Garden in the Last Episode from the Keyblade Graveyard, or at least why he's got amnesia when he's found by Ansem the Wise.

 

I didn't consider that.  I think you may have a point.  However, I think that if Young Xehanort brought anyone from that time to the future with him, it would be Vanitas.  I pretty sure that the reason why Terra-Xehanort ended up at Radiant Garden was that the explosion of light from the shattered χ-Blade sent him there.  Also, I think that the reason why he got amnesia is that he turned his Keyblade on himself when Terra began to resist again.  Because of this, he almost lost his heart (and if Aqua had not saved him, he probably would have), and his amnesia is a result of that (although Braig suggests that he may have never lost his memories in a flashback that we see at the beginning of Dream Drop Distance, but we don't know how true this is).  I still think you have a good point about Young Xehanort's appearance in that game though.



#18 Richypiants02

Richypiants02
  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 11 August 2018 - 10:12 AM

I didn't consider that.  I think you may have a point.  However, I think that if Young Xehanort brought anyone from that time to the future with him, it would be Vanitas.  I pretty sure that the reason why Terra-Xehanort ended up at Radiant Garden was that the explosion of light from the shattered χ-Blade sent him there.  Also, I think that the reason why he got amnesia is that he turned his Keyblade on himself when Terra began to resist again.  Because of this, he almost lost his heart (and if Aqua had not saved him, he probably would have), and his amnesia is a result of that (although Braig suggests that he may have never lost his memories in a flashback that we see at the beginning of Dream Drop Distance, but we don't know how true this is).  I still think you have a good point about Young Xehanort's appearance in that game though.

 

I thought of Vanitas too, except for one thing: Nomura has recently said that Vanitas has been resurrected in an unusual way and this excludes the character from bring brought to the future by YX, unless he was talking about time travel as the "unusul way". Though you may be right about the reasons of the events regarding Terra-Xehanort, I remember him not having amber eyes when he talks to Braig and this is concerning me a lot...

 

By the way, I think YX was looking for Terranort because simply we know the other SoD weren't in that time:

 

1) Master Xehanort = we see him returning in the end of KH3D

2) Young Xehanort = obvious reason

3) Vanitas = because of the interview

4) Ansem SoD = because he still wasn't born at the time

5) Xemnas = same as Ansem above

6) Xigbar = he still wasn't a nobody

7) Saix = same as Xigbar and he was too young

8) Luxord = this one could be but I don't think so because he doesn't have yellow eyes in KH2

9) Marluxia = same as Luxord 

10) Larxene = same as Marluxia

11) Aqua = OF COURSE we're playing as her in the fight so she can't be

12) Demyx = same as Luxord AND I think his place as a SoD will be taken by Terranort

13) Now this place is bothering me as YX might have been travelling to the BBS time to find the 13th seeker (maybe this will be Terranort's place and not Demyx's one)

 

So I can't think of anyone YX might have been searching there except Terranort.



#19 Dagesh Lene

Dagesh Lene
  • Member
  • 254 posts

Posted 11 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

I thought of Vanitas too, except for one thing: Nomura has recently said that Vanitas has been resurrected in an unusual way and this excludes the character from bring brought to the future by YX, unless he was talking about time travel as the "unusul way". Though you may be right about the reasons of the events regarding Terra-Xehanort, I remember him not having amber eyes when he talks to Braig and this is concerning me a lot...

 

By the way, I think YX was looking for Terranort because simply we know the other SoD weren't in that time:

 

1) Master Xehanort = we see him returning in the end of KH3D

2) Young Xehanort = obvious reason

3) Vanitas = because of the interview

4) Ansem SoD = because he still wasn't born at the time

5) Xemnas = same as Ansem above

6) Xigbar = he still wasn't a nobody

7) Saix = same as Xigbar and he was too young

8) Luxord = this one could be but I don't think so because he doesn't have yellow eyes in KH2

9) Marluxia = same as Luxord 

10) Larxene = same as Marluxia

11) Aqua = OF COURSE we're playing as her in the fight so she can't be

12) Demyx = same as Luxord AND I think his place as a SoD will be taken by Terranort

13) Now this place is bothering me as YX might have been travelling to the BBS time to find the 13th seeker (maybe this will be Terranort's place and not Demyx's one)

 

So I can't think of anyone YX might have been searching there except Terranort.

 

Maybe Young Xehanort wasn't searching for anyone in particular.  Maybe he just traveled to that time to see if there were any Xehanorts there.  After all, we were never told that he knew what times to travel to.  We were just told that he was given a mission to collect versions of himself from throughout time (this isn't my strongest argument, I know, but I really can't think of anyone that I think he would have taken with him to the future from that time).


Edited by Dagesh Lene, 11 August 2018 - 12:59 PM.


#20 Richypiants02

Richypiants02
  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:37 PM

Maybe Young Xehanort wasn't searching for anyone in particular.  Maybe he just traveled to that time to see if there were any Xehanorts there.  After all, we were never told that he knew what times to travel to.  We were just told that he was given a mission to collect versions of himself from throughout time (this isn't my strongest argument, I know, but I really can't think of anyone that I think he would have taken with him to the future from that time).

 

You might be right, but if we continue to assume that Vanitas wasn't the one brought to the future, then YX must have known that a Vanitas was already planned to join the True Org XIII. And I think that someone might have already decided which versions YX was to collect from the past (I once read somewhere that Ansem explained everything to all the SoD) so I can definitely see Terranort being taken by him, especially since we don't know his full story yet. We have lots of moments when he might have been taken by YX, especially when he was brought out of the Keyblade Graveyard by the X-Blade's explosion.