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is KH3 gameplay really an improvement? (Drive Forms vs Keyblade Transformations)


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#1 MasterLorX

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:29 PM

Hello Everyone

Before I start I want to say that the D23 trailer was Awesome and I like how Sora can now transform his keyblade BUT I also think we are missing something from the past (Drive Forms)

 

In KH2 gameplay we had Reaction Commands, Limits and Drive Forms. Now in KH3 we already know there are no Reaction Commands, as for Limits they have not been shown yet but I think we can assume they're likely going to be in the game,  about Drive Forms(DF) Nomura told us they are going to be in KH3 but actually both Guard Form and Power Form turned out to be simple Keyblade Transformation(KT) and this is the reason I decided to make this topic: are Keyblade Transformations going to REPLACE Drive Forms? if the answer is Yes (and I'm afraid it is) I'm not seeing KH3 gameplay as an improvement (in comparison to KH2)

 

Going into more specific detail we can say that KT (as shown in the trailer) don't give the player the same freedom as DF, in KH2 we had the Drive option in the command menu, from that we could decide to use a DF from a list at any time we wanted, as for KT there are 2 per Keyblade and you unlock them by filling an meter by attacking enemies in a short time, if you fill this meter a second time you unlock the 2nd level of a KT (for example Hyper Hammer "evolves" into Drill Punch). Basically KT are an option you need to achieve and not something you can rely on at any moment and this is why I can't see KT as the successor of DF. Also, it appears, you can only use the two KT your Keyblade has (example: no Hyper Hammer if you use Kingdom Key) and you can't have direct access to the 2nd level of a KT immediately, I believe this limitations could be felt during a boss fight

 

Now I'm going to say a personal opinion (but I'm sure I'm not alone) about why KT shouldn't replace DF: Swords are the most iconic and best weapons in videogames and KH is mainly a sword(key-sword actually) game and that's how it should remain, now what's better than a sword? TWO SWORDS! that's why I think we all love DF. Now I'm not saying KT are bad but personally I think using a bazooka or a giant hammer simply isn't as epic as comboing an enemy with Valor or Final Form (best DF imo). Also I hope in KH3 using the Keyblade as a sword won't be a tiny 10 sec interval between KT

 

 

that said Nomura told us the gameplay is still in development so I really hope he decides to add Drive Forms eventually (after all Focus Gauge being used only for Shotlock is quite lame). So let me know what you think :D, do you feel Keyblade Transformation are the righteous successor of Drive Forms? or do you want dual wielding Drive Forms in KH3 too?

also sorry for possible bad english :)


Edited by MasterLorX, 17 July 2017 - 08:19 PM.


#2 EliRob28

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:13 PM

I don't know if KT is the true successor to drive forms, what I do know is both of them affect Sora's fighting style as well as his magic. The thing about keyblades is that one is granted per heart. The only reason Sora and Roxas were able to wield two was because they had Ven's heart giving them his keyblade, and I am positive that Ventus will get his heart back. If there were to be some kind of duel-wielding in kh3, maybe one of the keyblades can split in half. What I can say that is a slight alternative to drive forms, what I hope for kh3 is that I can switch keybades during battle so I'm not limited to a single transformation.

#3 toruforevamente

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:15 PM

I liked it. Especially because unlike Aqua's transformation, you gain more time in that form by actually doing great with it. 

 

Drive forms are cool. Almost awesome. They're not "awesome" for me because they hinder your progress (dodge roll and Double Jump locked untill you get Master and Limit? The hell?). And besides, most noobies don't use it because they mash it, most veterans don't use it because there is no reason to unleas you're leveling them up for their skills(see my first point), and it's unreliable on hard bosses aside from Data ones because of Anti form.

 

Seriouslly, it's a gimick. A cool one, but that's that. Besides, the KB transformations are Sora's power, not a borrowed one.



#4 IAMME

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:30 PM

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of the KT



#5 Azure Flame

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:44 PM

I liked it. Especially because unlike Aqua's transformation, you gain more time in that form by actually doing great with it. 
 
Drive forms are cool. Almost awesome. They're not "awesome" for me because they hinder your progress (dodge roll and Double Jump locked untill you get Master and Limit? The hell?). And besides, most noobies don't use it because they mash it, most veterans don't use it because there is no reason to unleas you're leveling them up for their skills(see my first point), and it's unreliable on hard bosses aside from Data ones because of Anti form.
 
Seriouslly, it's a gimick. A cool one, but that's that. Besides, the KB transformations are Sora's power, not a borrowed one.


This. Also, the second Keyblade and boost in power of the drive forms made things a little too easy. The Terra fight for instance. Normally it's an almost impossible fight with how difficult and random it is, but if you go Final Form and spam magic, it becomes practically a cakewalk
Also, I think the Transformations are more of a spiritual successor to the drive forms, as they still represent what the others did. Valor and Power represent strength, with Valor showing it by using two keyblades with stronger combos and inability of using magic, and Power with the hammer and drill, both are shown to be red. Wisdom and the new form using the shooters focusing on magic/ranged attacks. Wisdom changed your normal attacks to ranged projectiles and enhanced your magic, while the as of now unnamed form uses the dual guns and the bazooka to deal ranged damage, both are shown blue. Then there's Master and Guard, showing a balance of magic and strength, but also having a defensive aspect to it. With Master you use two Keblades and have slightly boosted air combos, and enhanced magic, but also has air dodge for added defense. As for Guard, you have added defense from the shiled, but you can also use it to attack, and your magic also takes on a more defensive form, both are shown as yellow. Finally we have Limit and Second, which bring back from the previous games. Also, Second form is the only one so far in KH3 that isn't connected to a Transformation.

#6 MasterLorX

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:36 PM

I don't know if KT is the true successor to drive forms, what I do know is both of them affect Sora's fighting style as well as his magic. The thing about keyblades is that one is granted per heart. The only reason Sora and Roxas were able to wield two was because they had Ven's heart giving them his keyblade, and I am positive that Ventus will get his heart back. If there were to be some kind of duel-wielding in kh3, maybe one of the keyblades can split in half. What I can say that is a slight alternative to drive forms, what I hope for kh3 is that I can switch keybades during battle so I'm not limited to a single transformation.

actually Sora has Ven's, Roxas' and Xion's heart inside him. Personally I think only Ventus will come back in KH3 so there are still other two hearts to do the dual wielding trick. However even if all these 3 people come back and Sora only stays with just his own heart I believe Nomura can come up with something to allow dual wielding keyblades, for example I once invented a theory in a topic about how Sora could use two keyblades by connecting his heart with the heart of his friends (like Riku) thus borrowing from them the power to summon a second keyblade, interestingly I named this mechanics H-Link (Heart-Link) http://kh13.com/foru...e-forms-in-kh3/


This. Also, the second Keyblade and boost in power of the drive forms made things a little too easy. The Terra fight for instance. Normally it's an almost impossible fight with how difficult and random it is, but if you go Final Form and spam magic, it becomes practically a cakewalk
Also, I think the Transformations are more of a spiritual successor to the drive forms, as they still represent what the others did. Valor and Power represent strength, with Valor showing it by using two keyblades with stronger combos and inability of using magic, and Power with the hammer and drill, both are shown to be red. Wisdom and the new form using the shooters focusing on magic/ranged attacks. Wisdom changed your normal attacks to ranged projectiles and enhanced your magic, while the as of now unnamed form uses the dual guns and the bazooka to deal ranged damage, both are shown blue. Then there's Master and Guard, showing a balance of magic and strength, but also having a defensive aspect to it. With Master you use two Keblades and have slightly boosted air combos, and enhanced magic, but also has air dodge for added defense. As for Guard, you have added defense from the shiled, but you can also use it to attack, and your magic also takes on a more defensive form, both are shown as yellow. Finally we have Limit and Second, which bring back from the previous games. Also, Second form is the only one so far in KH3 that isn't connected to a Transformation.

yeah DF made Sora OP in KH2 also I noticed too the connection between the color and themes of the old DF and the trailers KT, in fact I'm curious to see if future KT will still be related to DF. However just as DF were too strong but weren't necessary to beat the game I hope KH3 gameplay does not make you rely on OP KT to beat bosses, I think that timing and basic keyblade combos is what made KH2 gameplay epic but I fear this two elements could be shadowed in KH3 by the fact you only need few seconds to unlock a KT, basically I fear KH3 could be just a KT spam


Edited by MasterLorX, 17 July 2017 - 08:42 PM.


#7 The Transcendent Key

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:19 PM

Well, remember, each Kingdom Hearts game tries something different, and as such, even though Kingdom Hearts II is one of the most acclaimed entries of the series, I'm sure that Nomura doesn't want KHIII to be another KHII. He wants Kingdom Hearts III to be its own thing, and all the buildup and all the learning from the different gameplay systems he's developed over the years has brought him to the point where he's melded these different gameplay styles together to weave an amazing combat system that'll make Kingdom Hearts III stand tall among the other entries in the series!

 

And thus yes, I do think Keyblade Transformations will be an awesome successor to Drive Forms! :D



#8 Azure Flame

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:43 PM

Even though it seems like it'll be easy to get them, they may only be doing that for the trailers, as they wouldn't want to bog down the trailers with too much filler fighting when they're trying to show off the transformations. Also, like the Drive forms in KH2, you can choose whether you want to use them or not, that's the beauty of the KH3 combat system is, you have all these different things you can choose from to take down enemies. You can use these new limits, like we've seen with Goofy in the Orchestra trailer, you can use summons, you can use these new Transformations, you can use Attraction Flow, you can use Flowmotion, or Shotlocks, or magic, or just your regular attacks. You don't have to focus on just one thing, you can try it all out and find what you like, not use what you don't.

#9 Xiro

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:55 PM

Since Keyblade Transformations are tied to what Keyblade you're using, if you're able to easily swap Keyblades, then that mostly gets rid of the limiting-your-gameplay issue. Of course, we don't know how that will work yet, so we'll have to wait for more information. One thing I'm kinda concerned about is whether or not they'll be spammable compared to other attacks (like Attraction Flow, Summons, and Shotlocks).

 

 

As for "having two swords is better than having a bazooka", one thing to think about is that with having so many Keyblades, we'll have a lot of variety when it comes to Transformations (again, that depends on how easy it is to swap Keyblades on the fly). As cool as dual wielding is, it's been done, so I don't see any problems with trying different things, as long as it's all executed in the right way.



#10 BlankShell

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:28 PM

Counterpoint: Why is repeating a gameplay mechanic we've already played to death a good thing? BBS and DDD didn't have them, both were great without. It's a new game, so that calls for a new mechanic. Assuming they are one and the same for this, I'm on board.

#11 Hero of Winds

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 02:28 AM

The thing is, Drive Forms in KH2 played a short lived part in the title. Most players used them to level abilities, but only found forms such as Final and Limit the most because they were more viable and less riddled with animation and clunky mechanics that lead to the downfall in a battle. With Keyblade Transformations, we're less likely to have this issues and the Drive Forms spotted within them could boost stats in that moment of battle. Not only that, but they add to the overall aesthetic of growth in Sora. Showing Drive Forms as an easy in and out boost with the newly added Keyblade Transformation mechanic shows maturity in Sora's combat ability. It also shows that he has better control and understanding over his abilities. Honestly, the removal of the form use itself is refreshing for KH3 and rather than holding that flashy appearance alone, it can actually be viable in combat this time around.